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Thread: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

  1. #16
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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Today's Times would tend to confirm that no change is intended - the Vatican has it in mind to ride out the storm.

    With regard to the pastoral letter itself, Holy See sources seemed relatively undismayed by negative Irish reaction, arguing that such a reaction was to be expected and that, in this case, it had been less virulent than anticipated. Asked if the pope had been disappointed by the Irish reaction, one Vatican commentator replied simply that “Benedict wasn’t born yesterday”.

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Fresh pedophilia cover-up claims hit Pope Benedict XVI late Wednesday in the case of a US priest who allegedly molested up to 200 deaf boys, according to church files obtained by The New York Times.

    The documents, which emerged as part of a lawsuit surrounding a school for deaf children in the US state of Wisconsin, show direct correspondence from the accused priest to the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 1996, the Times said.

    A trial against Murphy was halted after he wrote Ratzinger directly to protest possible punishment for the abuse, the Times said.
    The file doesn't contain any correspondence in reply from Ratzinger.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20100325-...dict-us-murphy

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    It gets worse...






    The pope was kept more closely informed of a German priest’s abuse case than previous church statements have suggested, the New York Times claimed today.

    The allegations raise fresh questions about his handling of a scandal unfolding under his direct supervision.

    The Times said the then Cardinal Ratzinger was copied in on a memo that informed him a priest, whom he had approved sending to therapy in 1980 to overcome paedophilia, would be returned to pastoral work within days of beginning psychiatric treatment

    The priest was then convicted of molesting boys in another parish.

    The paper said an initial statement on the matter by the Archdiocese of Munich placed full responsibility for the decision to allow the priest to resume his duties on Cardinal Ratzinger’s deputy, the Rev. Gerhard Gruber
    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/pope-knew-more-about-abuse-case-than-vatican-admitted-451475.html#ixzz0jHbexJH4

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    Today's Times would tend to confirm that no change is intended - the Vatican has it in mind to ride out the storm.
    They haven't changed one bit.

    The BBC reports: BBC March 26 2010 - Vatican Blames Media .....

    In 2003: Boston Phoenix October 24 - 30, 2003 ..... the Roman Catholic bishops’ conference of England and Wales accused the BBC of having an anti-Catholic bias for airing a documentary titled Kenyon Confronts, about cases of clergy sex abuse dating back 20 years. http://bit.ly/bWs9TA
    .
    .
    .
    .
    And 17 years ago: Los Angeles Times - Los Angeles, Calif. Author: ROBIN ABCARIAN Date: Jul 25, 1993 ..... U.S. bishops established a committee to investigate the problem of clerical sexual abuse. In the grand tradition of misplacing blame, the Pope, in a letter last month to U.S. bishops, accused the media of sensationalizing the issue. LA Times 1993
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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Andrew49's posts on the Brady thread delineate Ratzinger's role as the Vatican's micro-manager of child abuse concealment.

    The Vatican is fighting back hard to resist calls for the Pope's resignation as the focus is moving increasingly to his role.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/top...al-451633.html

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    There were demonstrations demanding the Pope resign outside Westminster Cathedral today. The Archbishop of Westminster has defended the Pope.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/abu...gn-451771.html

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    OPUS DEI COMES TO RATZINGER'S RESCUE

    Conservative Catholic university students rushed to Pope Benedict's defense on Wednesday, attacking journalists who have written about the sexual abuse of children by priests as
    "sowers of mistrust."
    The some 4,000 students from around the world, in Rome for a convention, handed the beleaguered pope a letter of support during his weekly general audience in St Peter's Square. The university students, from the conservative Catholic group Opus Dei, handed Benedict a letter that read:
    "We notice that many have taken advantage of some episodes that are painful for the Church and the pope to spread doubts and suspicion. To these sowers of mistrust we wish to say with clarity that we do not accept their ideology ... we demand from them respect for our faith and the recognition of the right that we have to live as Christians in a plural society."
    Link

    - - - - -
    UPDATE: Painful Swiss Happenings

    Roman Catholic bishops in Switzerland have admitted that they underestimated the extent of sexual abuse committed by priests, and have offered an apology. The Swiss Bishops' Conference said it was "ashamed" and suggested victims should consider pressing criminal charges against the perpetrators. The bishops did not, however, support the publication of a list of priests who have been found guilty of abuse.
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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Well Andrew the good thing about all this public focus on that corrupt cult is that (a) they have very little opportunity to hide or protect future clerical abusers and (b) the ordinary punter is getting a good look at the sort of lobotomised mania that exists among the remaining church fanatics.

    They've gone from flatly interfering in the law to prevent detection, to denying that abuse existed, to implying that the kids were to blame, to blaming society in general and at the moment are reduced to squealing that they are being oppressed when the authorities wake up and start taking an interest in them.

    If anything ordinary people should be seeing this parade of deflections and making up their own minds about the psychological state of these fanatics.

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    Exclamation Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    Well Andrew the good thing about all this public focus on that corrupt cult is that (a) they have very little opportunity to hide or protect future clerical abusers and (b) the ordinary punter is getting a good look at the sort of lobotomised mania that exists among the remaining church fanatics.

    They've gone from flatly interfering in the law to prevent detection, to denying that abuse existed, to implying that the kids were to blame, to blaming society in general and at the moment are reduced to squealing that they are being oppressed when the authorities wake up and start taking an interest in them.

    If anything ordinary people should be seeing this parade of deflections and making up their own minds about the psychological state of these fanatics.
    The paragraph in Ratzinger's letter which includes this little gem:
    "" ... the Church in your country has had to confront new and serious challenges to the faith arising from the rapid transformation and secularisation of Irish society. Fast-paced social change has occurred, often adversely affecting people's traditional adherence to Catholic teaching and values. ... It is in this overall context that we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual abuse,""" is breathtaking .... fantastical fiction ..... cynical ..... whitewashing .....

    Ratzinger is attempting to steer the Vatican Behemoth back to the times when no journalist, no newpaper, no democratically elected leader would dare question it's 'exalted' position.

    Of course those were the days when abuses were hidden, secret, un-reported. Indeed most of the evidence given at the Child Abuse Commission (Ryan Report) concerned the years BEFORE 1970 .... and over 700 of the identified abusers (out of 800 identified abusers) come from the the era before "" the rapid transformation and secularisation of Irish society "" !!

    Breathtaking !!
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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    The paragraph in Ratzinger's letter which includes this little gem:
    "" ... the Church in your country has had to confront new and serious challenges to the faith arising from the rapid transformation and secularisation of Irish society. Fast-paced social change has occurred, often adversely affecting people's traditional adherence to Catholic teaching and values. ... It is in this overall context that we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual abuse,""" is breathtaking .... fantastical fiction ..... cynical ..... whitewashing .....

    Ratzinger is attempting to steer the Vatican Behemoth back to the times when no journalist, no newpaper, no democratically elected leader would dare question it's 'exalted' position.

    Of course those were the days when abuses were hidden, secret, un-reported. Indeed most of the evidence given at the Child Abuse Commission (Ryan Report) concerned the years BEFORE 1970 .... and over 700 of the identified abusers (out of 800 identified abusers) come from the the era before "" the rapid transformation and secularisation of Irish society "" !!

    Breathtaking !!
    Great to see you Andrew49 as i noticed less and less of you in politics.ie. Now i know.

    Yeah you're right about the year before 1970 as my ex alma mater school where abuses occured way back in the early & late sixties.

    Where does he get the information/ideas from??

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    He's an old man who has spent most of his narrow minded life defending something that society finds repugnant.

    He's hardly going to admit that his entire life has been a charade and a waste and he certainly is not going to admit that his organisation is so corrupt as to be criminal.

    I've watched some of the church apologists on various debates and its strikes me that all of them consider themselves qualified to discuss ethics (which they call 'morality') and then exert huge energy trying to pick some kind of hole for the catholic church to escape through.

    It confirms my suspicions that many rightwing churchnuts aren't even remotely religious. They are just insane enough to reject mountains of evidence against their church and they call it 'oppression'. They attach themselves to the defense of the indefensible because they see the church as one of their bastions against change, against the narrow minded bigotry of a superstitious peasant 1950's Ireland.

    They are so brain damaged that they can talk all day about morality but wouldn't recognise right from wrong if it reversed over them in a 4x4.

    Thats what religious indoctrination does to people. It lobotomises their critical faculties.

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    He's an old man who has spent most of his narrow minded life defending something that society finds repugnant.

    He's hardly going to admit that his entire life has been a charade and a waste and he certainly is not going to admit that his organisation is so corrupt as to be criminal.

    I've watched some of the church apologists on various debates and its strikes me that all of them consider themselves qualified to discuss ethics (which they call 'morality') and then exert huge energy trying to pick some kind of hole for the catholic church to escape through.

    It confirms my suspicions that many rightwing churchnuts aren't even remotely religious. They are just insane enough to reject mountains of evidence against their church and they call it 'oppression'. They attach themselves to the defense of the indefensible because they see the church as one of their bastions against change, against the narrow minded bigotry of a superstitious peasant 1950's Ireland.

    They are so brain damaged that they can talk all day about morality but wouldn't recognise right from wrong if it reversed over them in a 4x4.

    Thats what religious indoctrination does to people. It lobotomises their critical facilities.
    Long time no see Captain Con. Good one there. The present pope has spent most of his life in the world of academic as he only spent one year in pastoral work when he was a curate in a parish which lasted a year before hos bishop called him back ashore. Perhaps he may have no experience in dealing with such people who have various problems such alcoholic, the abused, violence et al which may escape his understanding of these trauma impacted on these people hugely. That affected them in later life such as marriage problems, addictions, gambling, so on. It's the understanding of human nature is very important to comprehend it fully which the Vatican didn't get it.
    Last edited by disability student; 01-04-2010 at 01:59 PM.

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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    how do DS and glad to see you posting away here... you and Andrew have great patience and I can only admire the way you handle yourselves given the experiences you've had.

    At least you'll get the pleasure of seeing the church deservedly go down in flames which is something I never thought I'd see.

    Screw 'em and I hope the door DOES hit them on the arse on the way out.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: "Is the Pope A Catholic" ..Painful German Happenings...

    Quote Originally Posted by disability student View Post
    Great to see you Andrew49 as i noticed less and less of you in politics.ie. Now i know.

    Yeah you're right about the year before 1970 as my ex alma mater school where abuses occured way back in the early & late sixties.

    Where does he get the information/ideas from??
    Hi DS - welcome aboard.

    Seems Pope Paul VI was also aware of abusive prelates!

    The head of a Roman Catholic order that specialized in the treatment of pedophile priests visited with Pope Paul VI nearly 50 years ago and followed up with a letter recommending the removal of pedophile priests from ministry, according to a copy of the letter released yesterday.

    In the Aug. 27, 1963, letter, the head of the New Mexico-based Servants of the Holy Paraclete told the pope that he recommended removing pedophile priests from active ministry and strongly urged defrocking repeat offenders. The letter shows that the Vatican knew about clergy abuse in the U.S. decades ago, said Anthony DeMarco, a plaintiff's attorney in Los Angeles who provided the letter. The release comes as plaintiffs in Kentucky are attempting to sue the Vatican for negligence for allegedly failing to alert police or the public about priests who molested children.

    The letter, written by the Rev. Gerald M.C. Fitzgerald, appears to have been drafted at the request of the pope and summarizes Fitzgerald's thoughts on problem priests after his Vatican visit. A message left with the Paraclete order at one of its two existing facilities in Missouri was not returned. A number for the second facility was disconnected. The offices of the Vatican spokesman were closed late Wednesday - it is Holy Week!

    Tod Tamberg, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, defended the church and said it is unlikely that Paul VI ever saw the letter.
    "The fact of the matter is, the prevailing ideas at the time about how to deal with abusive behavior were not adequate, clearly, society and the church have evolved new understandings of what causes sexually abusive behavior and how to deal with it."
    The letter tells Paul VI that treatment for priests who have succumbed to "abnormal, homosexual tendencies" should include psychiatric, as well as spiritual, counseling -- but goes on to warn about the dangers of leaving those individuals in ministry. The letter was released in Los Angeles by lawyers who represented more than 500 victims of clergy abuse in their record-breaking $660 million settlement with the Archdiocese of Los Angeles in 2007. Lawyers working on the Los Angeles cases found it among court papers related to clergy abuse cases filed in New Mexico in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

    1963 Letter
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    Default Painful Austrian Happenings...

    An Austrian victim support group has received reports of 174 more cases of maltreatment and sexual abuse in Roman Catholic institutions since creating a hotline two weeks ago, the group said Friday. The Platform for Victims of Violence by the Church set up the special number amid a spate of paedophile priest scandals in Europe and the United States which have engulfed the Vatican.

    "We are learning daily about the methods of education in Catholic institutions in Austria during the 1960s and 1970s, they can be summed up in one word -- sadism."
    Around 150 people had called the hotline and the group had learned of 174 alleged abuse cases, Eich said. Of the cases,
    43 percent involved physical violence,
    34 percent involved sexual aggression
    23 percent involved "moral violence"

    Men made up 68 percent of the alleged victims and 74 percent of the perpetrators.Manfred Deiser, one of the group's founders said:.
    "These people want, above all, to be heard, to find psychological healing, they want injustice to be recognised, for people to answer for their actions, and eventually to forgive,"
    He said that financial compensation was not a major motivation for those lodging complaints. Deiser said the group was examining all the claims and could take legal action on behalf of individual victims. Austrian law did not allow a class action against the Church. Austria saw an avalanche of allegations of sexual abuse by clergy members last month.

    Source
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