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Thread: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

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    Default TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/....html?digest=1

    The words "knowledge economy" seem very sad, reading this -

    TCD HAS dropped out of the world’s top 50 universities and UCD has slipped from the top 100 in the latest world university rankings.

    The findings underline the difficulty both universities face at a time when the Irish higher education sector is experiencing cutbacks.

    The latest results in the prestigious QS World University Rankings come as an OECD report highlighted low levels of investment in Irish education. Ireland lies 30th out of 33 OECD countries, with just the Czech Republic, Italy and the Slovak Republic spending less on education as a percentage of GDP.

    The report – based on 2007 data – was compiled before the recent wave of spending cuts. It says Ireland spent only 1.2 per cent of GDP on higher education, well below the OECD average.

    The world university rankings by Quacquarelli Symonds (QS) show TCD slipping from 43 in 2009 to 52, while UCD moves from 89 to 114.

    The news for some universities was better, with UCC up from 207 to 184 and NUI Galway up from 243 to 232. DCU moves from 279 to 330. UL and NUI Maynooth are again ranked between 400 and 500

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    The notion of UCD's ranking and reputation now being at the mercy of alumna Mary Coughlan must send shock waves through the campus.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/....html?digest=1

    The words "knowledge economy" seem very sad, reading this -
    This might seem terribly basic and for that I do apologize .... and yes I realise education is always part and parcel of the future, absolutely essential and much more besides ...

    But ... what do we actually have in the real sense of the word to spend anymore in a meaningful sense on education (and more besides) ... with what was ever actually there having been to all intensive purposes *£$%%^ into a Banking Black Hole by those supposed to be in charge of the nation's future????

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Universities have gone to a helluva lot of expense to provide students, lecturers and research grads with the latest in IT resources... on-line monographs, journals etc etc. And the result ? All of them.. lecturers and proffs included use Google to do their research !
    Tossers the lot of them. This headline doesn't suprise me one bit.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    Universities have gone to a helluva lot of expense to provide students, lecturers and research grads with the latest in IT resources... on-line monographs, journals etc etc. And the result ? All of them.. lecturers and proffs included use Google to do their research !
    Tossers the lot of them. This headline doesn't suprise me one bit.
    The "rankings" are complete nonsense in any case. Science papers are reviewed anonymously and secretively; part of the irony of the Climategate issue was that they just did the bolloxology that researchers do everywhere, and which looks like fraud to the uninitiated (who in my view are right)

    What happened in the past few years is that the Irish unis hired visiting "adjunct" profs to beef up the amount of times a paper allegedly emanating from that uni was cited. Ultimately even the revenue started sniffing around as these guys were not hired in any regular way to avoid tax. So expect further sliding

    The future of research is complete openness, on the web, as Einstein wanted. Since the country is in any case going bankrupt, we may be able to achieve a native uni system in which all work is available for audit by the members of the public who pay for it

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    The notion of UCD's ranking and reputation now being at the mercy of alumna Mary Coughlan must send shock waves through the campus.
    And dont forget that BIFFO himself is a former student of UCD.

    My old Uni has moved into the top 30. It must be my contribution that made the difference.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Who are Quacquarelli Symonds and why should we care what they think?

    Their web site is error ridden and amateurish. The 'Country Guide' page on Ireland would embarrass a weak junior cert student. One can't quite shake the fear that the next sentence might just contain the words faith and begorrah. The very heavy emphasis on the MBA shows an interest in meaningless 'qualifications' rather than education.

    The massive over-representation of institutions from the anglophone world in the ranking list is enough to dismiss the whole thing as a simplistic exercise.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by erigena View Post
    The "rankings" are complete nonsense in any case. Science papers are reviewed anonymously and secretively; part of the irony of the Climategate issue was that they just did the bolloxology that researchers do everywhere, and which looks like fraud to the uninitiated (who in my view are right)

    What happened in the past few years is that the Irish unis hired visiting "adjunct" profs to beef up the amount of times a paper allegedly emanating from that uni was cited. Ultimately even the revenue started sniffing around as these guys were not hired in any regular way to avoid tax. So expect further sliding

    The future of research is complete openness, on the web, as Einstein wanted. Since the country is in any case going bankrupt, we may be able to achieve a native uni system in which all work is available for audit by the members of the public who pay for it
    Bloody great idea. Very liberal as well. It's on my policy list.

    Of course the uni's are blaming funding from government.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by erigena View Post
    we may be able to achieve a native uni system in which all work is available for audit by the members of the public who pay for it

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    These QS rankings are highly regarded in the academic world. Here is there website:

    http://www.topuniversities.com/

    There 3(I think) different ranking systems and they vary slightly in their methodology.

    Why should we take them serious?

    They can play a role in getting funding
    They can play a role in getting private investment
    They can play a role in attracting the highest quality students
    They give us an idea of whether our 3rd level institutions are providing value for the money we invest in them.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brehon View Post
    Bloody great idea. Very liberal as well. It's on my policy list.

    Of course the uni's are blaming funding from government.
    Lame excuse coming from Universities. They has the professionals in their teams to work within re their finances.

    They were always interested in money not the students or their welfare. It was like conveyor belt chugging along all students and churning out fat loads of money out of them. You can only see that most presidents particularly UCC president was paid too high around 250K along with additional expenses paid for by the taxpayer.

    I remembered when there were CUTS in disability support grants as most of us were affected. They received the monies and sat on their accounts earning some interest before they could pay out re lap tops or 2nd hand laptops etc or re used laptop. That tells you about their money pinching style.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruffalo View Post
    These QS rankings are highly regarded in the academic world. Here is there website:

    http://www.topuniversities.com/

    There 3(I think) different ranking systems and they vary slightly in their methodology.

    Why should we take them serious?

    They can play a role in getting funding
    They can play a role in getting private investment
    They can play a role in attracting the highest quality students
    They give us an idea of whether our 3rd level institutions are providing value for the money we invest in them.

    The ranking systems are often hilariously at odds

    Let's take that the rest a point at a time;

    1. Almost all research funding in Ireland comes from SFI and PRTLI, both Irish taxpayer-based. From the 80's, the EU indeed injected funds through various "framework" projects et al, immediately creating an upper caste of academics who no longer focussed on their teaching. In fact, those of us who did realistic teaching loads (10 hours/week) were effectively excluded.

    The EU work like Eurotra was frankly a disgrace, but did ****** the rest of us working in such areas by the presence of subsidized incompetence on campus.

    2. Please give a list of such private investors:For example; Intel gives $x million for basic research

    No, I do not include scams whereby a taxpayer-funded project is diverted into a corporation.

    3. Please give a list of "highest quality" students coming from overseas to Ireland instead of, say, Stanford

    4.We need to get a report from the revenue, as well as full accounts from the unis, as a first step about value for money. It would be nice, for example, if DCU finally revealed how much it will have to pay for Paul Cahill's legal fees, having tried to fire him for 4 years.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    What's your problem with having the work available to those who pay for it?

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    Previous
    06/06/2018 - 21:31:33
    Back to Ireland Home
    By Niall Murray, Education Correspondent
    All but two Irish universities have fallen again in a global ranking system that sees Trinity College Dublin drop out of the top 100.


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...gs-847337.html

    So what's the point in the so-called economic recovery if we are not investing in the future?
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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    Default Re: TCD and UCD Slide Down University Rankings - What Should Be Done ?

    To be honest I'm not at all surprised. I was at UCD in the early 90s and quite frankly the place was a joke even back then. And I was doing one of their well-known flagship degrees. It was just a conveyor-belt degree mill. I basically sleep-walked through the entire degree, rarely bothering to attend lectures - there was very little point, 99% of lectures were just some drone summarising a chapter of the textbook with additional anecdotes to help along the terminally Stupid. My A-levels (Maths, Physics and Economics) were entire orders of magnitude more complex, detailed and difficult than anything I encountered in the whole three years at UCD.

    25 years later about all I remember about my time at UCD is some of the epic parties, and my abiding deep-seated loathing for Deefers

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