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Thread: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NotW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murder

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd

    So much hypocrisy in the British Press with this, and it was barely touched by the Irish press. BBC is now covering it tonight as though they didn't already know this stuff 6 months ago.

    All wanting a job with Murdoch ? And how deep were the police and intelligence wrapped up in this ?

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Casey View Post
    In a speech in 1931, Conservative politician Stanley Baldwin attacked the press barons of the day, Aitken (Daily Express) and Harmsworth (Daily Mail and Daily Mirror) describing their publications as "propaganda for the constantly changing policies, desires, personal wishes, personal likes and dislikes of two men" by means of "direct falsehood, misrepresentation, half-truths". He ended by quoting Kipling in saying that "what the proprietorship of these papers is aiming at is power, but power without responsibility - the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages". Sound familiar?

    My first lesson about the media came from my grandmother, who had received little formal education. She described journalists a “penny-a-line men”. (She also described the Free State as “a lick of green paint”, a view that wasn’t on the syllabus while I was in receipt of a “better” education.)

    To me, the major media outlets behave exactly like camp followers who accompanied armies. Camp followers provided soldiers with services such as extra rations, liquor and prostitutes. After battles, the same camp followers would kill the wounded left on the battlefield and rob all the corpses. The media that follow political parties, celebrities or “causes” are just as fickle and vicious. They’ll provide the wherewithal to pursue a campaign, but beware. Murdoch’s odious media are strong on faux outrage of the flog ‘em, hang ‘em variety. Yet his gang literally ended up looting the possessions of a murdered schoolgirl while her body lay abandoned and unburied.

    People are outraged by this. It’s the same sense of outrage that has often been carefully nurtured by Murdoch. People were outraged by Fianna Fáil, which was supported by Murdoch. Part of the outrage is that they may no longer be able to afford a Sky TV subscription. It’s almost like Stockholm Syndrome, but it’s just the syndrome known as stupidity. There’s no difference in agenda between Sky, the News of the World or The Sunday Times. People are so poorly educated that they cannot make these connections for themselves. They don’t want to anyway – it might impinge on the comforts of their “lifestyle”.

    The bombardment of mass media has left us addicted to the Latest Thing, which is a momentary phenomenon because here comes the next Latest Thing. As the LulzSec “manifesto” put it “this is the Internet, where we screw each other over for a jolt of satisfaction”. Which is funny because it’s true and also because this isn’t the Internet, it’s the Worldwide Web. The more we know, the less we understand.

    It doesn’t really matter if you “like” a source of information or not. (I’m surprised that Facebook hasn’t attempted to copyright that particular expression by now.) It’s important to remember that, as another press baron, Harmsworth’s Dublin-born brother Alfred (The Times) said, journalism is “a profession whose business is to explain to others what it personally does not understand”. It’s all about advertising, shareholders and the proprietor’s agenda. You’re only reading what you’re reading because somebody got paid a “penny a line”.
    This is true. But I don't agree that everyone accessing the news does it for some ****** fix. People want information and that's legitimate. For example, people wanted to know who the bondholders were who were being bailed out with their money, why a woman died of hypothermia in Ballymun, and now want to know if they will have hospital services or not. If the press did not include a proportion of genuine information, the newspapers wouldn't be bought.

    But you didn't answer my question -from where does one get information? - unless saying that we shouldn't want it in the first place was the answer.

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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    So much hypocrisy in the British Press with this, and it was barely touched by the Irish press. BBC is now covering it tonight as though they didn't already know this stuff 6 months ago.

    All wanting a job with Murdoch ? And how deep were the police and intelligence wrapped up in this ?
    Hypocrisy is a hallmark of journalism. The editor is refusing to resign despite at best being so utterly incompetent that she didn't know what was going on in her own news room or worse she knew and was happy to rake in the readership.

    The media simply don't do accountability.

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    This is true. But I don't agree that everyone accessing the news does it for some ****** fix. People want information and that's legitimate. For example, people wanted to know who the bondholders were who were being bailed out with their money, why a woman died of hypothermia in Ballymun, and now want to know if they will have hospital services or not. If the press did not include a proportion of genuine information, the newspapers wouldn't be bought.

    But you didn't answer my question -from where does one get information? - unless saying that we shouldn't want it in the first place was the answer.
    No, we’ll always want information because we’re that nosey. I was making a point about the difference between information and knowledge. Much of what passes for information is merely data manipulation – “lies, damed lies and statistics” and all that. We have an abundance of information. What do we do with it? The (unconfirmed) list of Anglo bondholders merely confirmed what we knew already – that greed, stupidity and incompetence will be rewarded. The information on the death of a woman from hypothermia confirmed what we know already, that “class distinction” is a strong feature of Irish life and incompetence will go unpunished. The information about hospital services confirms what we know about how the IMF, EU and ECB operate and the fact that the Dáil will always be in the hands of the greedy, stupid and incompetent. We know what is wrong, we can back up our assertions but yet we lack the wherewithal to make informed decisions about objectives, strategy or tactics.

    As a guilty pleasure, I occasionally like to read the readers’ comments on the Daily Heil Web site. They’re handily ranked as “best rated” and “worst rated”. It’s like a double-espresso of stupidity. Call it a “jolt of satisfaction”. I know what to expect and it informs me that I’m right. YouTube comments fulfill the same function. As LulzSec also pointed out “"Nobody is truly causing the Internet to slip one way or the other, it's an inevitable outcome for us humans."

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Casey View Post
    No, we’ll always want information because we’re that nosey. I was making a point about the difference between information and knowledge. Much of what passes for information is merely data manipulation – “lies, damed lies and statistics” and all that. We have an abundance of information. What do we do with it? The (unconfirmed) list of Anglo bondholders merely confirmed what we knew already – that greed, stupidity and incompetence will be rewarded. The information on the death of a woman from hypothermia confirmed what we know already, that “class distinction” is a strong feature of Irish life and incompetence will go unpunished. The information about hospital services confirms what we know about how the IMF, EU and ECB operate and the fact that the Dáil will always be in the hands of the greedy, stupid and incompetent. We know what is wrong, we can back up our assertions but yet we lack the wherewithal to make informed decisions about objectives, strategy or tactics.

    As a guilty pleasure, I occasionally like to read the readers’ comments on the Daily Heil Web site. They’re handily ranked as “best rated” and “worst rated”. It’s like a double-espresso of stupidity. Call it a “jolt of satisfaction”. I know what to expect and it informs me that I’m right. YouTube comments fulfill the same function. As LulzSec also pointed out “"Nobody is truly causing the Internet to slip one way or the other, it's an inevitable outcome for us humans."
    In fact, I think very few people who are not tenants of Dublin City Council know what it's like to have that pleasure. The press is the tool of the capitalist class and a purveyor of bourgeois ideology. But what it purveys is news (information) and each outlet has to consider that if it hushes something up, one of its rivals may make a killing with an "exclusive". Consequently, there is quite a lot of information available.

    There are however, news "black holes" - any news about Central Africa, other than famine, is unlikely to be covered in Europe, no matter how many million people are killed. Fukushima, in plain view, has melted down and melted through its base, remains unstable and is a much bigger disaster than Chernobyl, but, as a new story has the plague and is not being touched. Of course, the Coulson story, subject of this thread, was barely touched by the media, for the worst of possible reasons.

    The internet has transformed coverage, as it means we can find the one source that is available, no matter how obscure. AlJazeera, perhaps for cynical reasons, carried a live stream from Tahrir Square that had a real impact on the events there, as it showed that the State tv was lying. There are a few blogs reporting on Fukushima.

    It is much harder now to suppress information. But the internet is heavily reliant on professional journalist fact-checkers for most of the news it contains.

    You seem to view news as some kind of info-porn and also to believe that everyone knows all they need to know about the events that effect their lives. But by definition, news brings us new information. Sometimes it confirms what we already suspected, but there are occasions in life when it comes as a complete shock.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 06-07-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    But what it purveys is news (information) and each outlet has to consider that if it hushes something up, one of its rivals may make a killing with an "exclusive". Consequently, there is quite a lot of information available.
    Indeed. Alfred Harmsworth also said that "news is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising".

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    But the internet is heavily reliant on professional journalist fact-checkers for most of the news it contains.
    I tend to agree with Norman Mailer who said that "once a newspaper touches a story, the facts are lost forever, even to the protagonists".

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    You seem to view news as some kind of info-porn
    No. But it is becoming infotainment.

    Do you have a Sky subscription?

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Casey View Post
    Indeed. Alfred Harmsworth also said that "news is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising".


    I tend to agree with Norman Mailer who said that "once a newspaper touches a story, the facts are lost forever, even to the protagonists".


    No. But it is becoming infotainment.

    Do you have a Sky subscription?
    Ask it happens, I don't pay any subscriptions, but I'm not in favour of any boycott of news channels and watch whatever I can, whenever I can watch it, including Sky. Much of what I've seen of the north african revolution has been via Sky.

    I've also worked for the BBC, which I consider to be a State arm of disinformation.

    Do you ? Where do you get your news from ?

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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd

    The Tories must feel in trouble by now having removed Vince Cable from monitoring Rupert Murdoch only to replace him with someone who is facilitating his takeover of British media. Cameron's appointment of News of the World former editor when phone hacking was endemic looks bad for them too.

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Ask it happens, I don't pay any subscriptions, but I'm not in favour of any boycott of news channels and watch whatever I can, whenever I can watch it, including Sky. Much of what I've seen of the north african revolution has been via Sky.

    I've also worked for the BBC, which I consider to be a State arm of disinformation.

    Do you ? Where do you get your news from ?
    Of course not! I don't have a TV - I wouldn't have one of those infernal contraptions in the house! I've seen what TV does to people - it makes them stupid yet convinces them that they haven't been made stupid. That's some pretty powerful brainwashing right there. 'Tis like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers so it is - only with brains. I've got one of those TV-b-gone yokes - you should see how people in bars and so on react when their TV is taken away from them. 'Tis pitiful so it is.

    I get my news from politicalworld.org of course! I look for trends. During the last recession we had phenomena such as Ballinspittle, we're seeing the same sort of thing now - only on-line That and some more reactionary attitudes. We're getting a bit of that too!

    For real news I go to the pub. That's where you get all the best local gossip and also get to hear all the half-truths and disinformation of the media regurgitated as fact.

    For knowledge I study the feral cats. The way they behave has taught me that the price of freedom is indeed eternal vigilance. You'd never get that from the "news".

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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd

    I don't have a TV either. I will watch a documentary over the internet but only on a subject which I know will teach me something- haven't owned a TV in years and absolutely hate that habit people have of turning on their TV and flicking through channels to find something tolerable.

    It is visual prozac and such a waste of time in relatively short lifespans.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd


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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd

    Looks like the next revelation is that the NOTW may have hacked phones belonging to families of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afganistan:
    The Daily Telegraph has learnt that the personal details of the families of servicemen who died on the front line have been found in the files of Glenn Mulcaire, the private detective working for the Sunday tabloid.
    The disclosure that grieving relatives of war dead were targets for the newspaper prompted anger among military charities, who said it was a “disgusting and indefensible assault on privacy”.
    The Metropolitan Police is facing growing calls from the families of murder victims, those killed in terrorist attacks and those who died in natural disasters, such as the Indonesian tsunami, to disclose if they were targets.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...the-World.html

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    Default Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked After Her Murd

    Watching Newsnight, the outrage from Miliband and Cameron is so galling, their parties so willingly cosied up to Murdoch.

    Prescott getting in on the act now. FFS.
    Last edited by Nicht Besonders; 06-07-2011 at 10:56 PM.

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    Default Re: The Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor and NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking / Bugging

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Casey View Post
    In a speech in 1931, Conservative politician Stanley Baldwin attacked the press barons of the day, Aitken (Daily Express) and Harmsworth (Daily Mail and Daily Mirror) describing their publications as "propaganda for the constantly changing policies, desires, personal wishes, personal likes and dislikes of two men" by means of "direct falsehood, misrepresentation, half-truths". He ended by quoting Kipling in saying that "what the proprietorship of these papers is aiming at is power, but power without responsibility - the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages". Sound familiar?

    My first lesson about the media came from my grandmother, who had received little formal education. She described journalists a “penny-a-line men”. (She also described the Free State as “a lick of green paint”, a view that wasn’t on the syllabus while I was in receipt of a “better” education.)

    To me, the major media outlets behave exactly like camp followers who accompanied armies. Camp followers provided soldiers with services such as extra rations, liquor and prostitutes. After battles, the same camp followers would kill the wounded left on the battlefield and rob all the corpses. The media that follow political parties, celebrities or “causes” are just as fickle and vicious. They’ll provide the wherewithal to pursue a campaign, but beware. Murdoch’s odious media are strong on faux outrage of the flog ‘em, hang ‘em variety. Yet his gang literally ended up looting the possessions of a murdered schoolgirl while her body lay abandoned and unburied.

    People are outraged by this. It’s the same sense of outrage that has often been carefully nurtured by Murdoch. People were outraged by Fianna Fáil, which was supported by Murdoch. Part of the outrage is that they may no longer be able to afford a Sky TV subscription. It’s almost like Stockholm Syndrome, but it’s just the syndrome known as stupidity. There’s no difference in agenda between Sky, the News of the World or The Sunday Times. People are so poorly educated that they cannot make these connections for themselves. They don’t want to anyway – it might impinge on the comforts of their “lifestyle”.

    The bombardment of mass media has left us addicted to the Latest Thing, which is a momentary phenomenon because here comes the next Latest Thing. As the LulzSec “manifesto” put it “this is the Internet, where we screw each other over for a jolt of satisfaction”. Which is funny because it’s true and also because this isn’t the Internet, it’s the Worldwide Web. The more we know, the less we understand.

    It doesn’t really matter if you “like” a source of information or not. (I’m surprised that Facebook hasn’t attempted to copyright that particular expression by now.) It’s important to remember that, as another press baron, Harmsworth’s Dublin-born brother Alfred (The Times) said, journalism is “a profession whose business is to explain to others what it personally does not understand”. It’s all about advertising, shareholders and the proprietor’s agenda. You’re only reading what you’re reading because somebody got paid a “penny a line”.
    Great post.

    [Evil_g likes this]

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    Default Maidir Le: Re: Coulson Scandal - Cameron's Media Advisor + NoW Involved in Extensive Hacking /Milly Dowler's Phone Hacked Aft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicht Besonders View Post
    Watching Newsnight, the outrage from Miliband and Cameron is so galling, their parties so willingly cosied up to Murdoch.
    yip, though we know they have little choice at the end of the day. Everywhere Murdoch goes, govts seem happy to just let him take ridiculous amounts of power.

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