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Thread: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry Report

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerday Sands View Post
    Thanks Sidewinder.

    This French documentary has some fascinating footage from the day.
    YouTube- The Ulster Troubles (Part 18 of 24)
    "It was sheer unadulterated murder. Nearly all the dead were shot in the back"

    Coroner.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    I worked with an old (55 yrs old ) para when in North Africa in the '80's and he said that Paras don't do anything without having been given orders. He had experience in Cyprus of having been told to beat old men , women and children. His take on Bloody Sunday was simple... they were told to shoot.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    I worked with an old (55 yrs old ) para when in North Africa in the '80's and he said that Paras don't do anything without having been given orders. He had experience in Cyprus of having been told to beat old men , women and children. His take on Bloody Sunday was simple... they were told to shoot.
    Thanks for that, Lapsed. The only question in my mind ever was how far up it went, and I don't have much doubt about that.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    then surely it should be those who gave the orders that should be facing prosecution?

    I wonder is the timing of the 2 billion to victims of PIRA victims, an attempt to soften the blow for Unionists, that the bloody Sunday victims were unlawfully murdered?

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by mutley View Post
    then surely it should be those who gave the orders that should be facing prosecution?

    I wonder is the timing of the 2 billion to victims of PIRA victims, an attempt to soften the blow for Unionists, that the bloody Sunday victims were unlawfully murdered?
    That was the Appalling Vista.



    Reports from Derry today
    http://www.u.tv/News/Bloody-Sunday-f...c-a0deccb3c905

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry



    Eammon McCann wrote this very good summary in 1998

    http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr216/mccann.htm

    On 22 January an anti-internment march in Armagh was scattered by British soldiers firing CS gas and rubber bullets. On the same day a march to a newly opened prison camp at Magilligan in County Derry was beaten and kicked into disarray by soldiers, including paratroopers bussed in from near Belfast. Civil rights leaders complained about soldiers putting the boot in. But as far as Faulkner's far right critics were concerned, he was still pussyfooting around.
    As Armagh and Magilligan marchers nursed their bruises on the way home, the Grand Amalgamated Committee of the Orange Order, the Royal Black Preceptory and the Apprentice Boys of Derry met in Lurgan and issued a threat to organise Orange marches if a stop wasn't put to the anti-internment protests: 'In the absence of a clear demonstration of [the ban's] effectiveness, the government can hardly expect our people to observe it.'
    At Stormont the following Tuesday, 25 January, Ulster Unionist MPs Robert Mitchell and John Laird defied the party whip and voted for a motion jointly proposed by Craig and Paisley condemning the application of the ban to parades by 'Loyal orders'. On the same evening the Derry branch of the Democratic Unionists called for action against the Bogside-Creggan - 'The queen's writ must run in all parts of our city' - and announced a 'prayer meeting' in Guildhall Square the following Sunday at 3pm to coincide with the scheduled arrival of the march. The statement ended with a plea: 'Where are the men at the top? Why are they so silent? What are they waiting for?'
    The following evening Mr Craig told a packed rally at the Apprentice Boys Hall in Derry that Loyalists 'must find new leaders and go into action'. He announced a series of demonstrations to begin the following week, to culminate in a 'monster rally' in Belfast on 18 March - 1972 would be 'Loyal Ulster's year of decision'. At 8.30 the following morning the first two RUC men to lose their lives in Derry in the Troubles were killed in a Provo ambush at the edge of the no go area. There was now even more intense outrage in the calls for harsher security action. As the two policemen lay dying, Faulkner was en route to London, possibly ruminating on the meeting of the Stormont Joint Security Committee which he had chaired the previous night. It had been attended by the general officer commanding British troops in the North, Lieutenant-General Harry Tuzo, RUC Chief Constable Graham Shillington, junior home affairs minister John Taylor and a British government official. It is likely, to put it no higher, that the handling of the Derry march had been the main item on the agenda. In London Faulkner met for more than a hour with Prime Minister Heath before flying home.
    The following morning, Friday 28 January, Heath presided at a meeting of his cabinet's defence and overseas committee, attended by Home Secretary Reginald Maudling, Defence Secretary Lord Carrington, Leader of the Commons William Whitelaw, and the joint chiefs of staff. This group, minus the joint chiefs of staff, also constituted the cabinet's Northern Ireland committee. It is likely that the Derry march featured at this meeting too - later, during the Commons debate in April 1992 on presentation of the Widgery Report, Heath revealed that 'cabinet ministers' had been been aware of the plans for handling the Derry march.
    The next day, 29 January, the RUC and British army issued a joint statement:
    'Experience this year has already shown that attempted marches often end in violence and [sic] must have been foreseen by the organisers. Clearly, the responsibility for this violence and the consequences of it must rest fairly and squarely on the shoulders of those who encourage people to break the law. The security forces have a duty to take action against those who set out to break the law.' That afternoon the Democratic Unionists announced the cancellation of their 'prayer meeting', saying, 'We have been assured that the civil rights march will be halted by force if necessary. We are prepared to give the government a final opportunity to demonstrate their integrity and honour their promise, but warn that if they fail in this undertaking they need never again ask Loyalist people to forfeit their basic right of peaceful and legal assembly.'
    Last edited by C. Flower; 15-06-2010 at 01:53 PM.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    From the Link above

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/jun/15/bloodysunday-northernireland
    Relatives inside the Guildhall, who have been reading the report, are at the window with their thumbs up. They seem to have got what they wanted. That's why the crowd is cheering.
    I take it back. This could be it!
    The first robot president won by exactly one vote. Ah, yes! John Quincy Adding Machine. He struck a chord with the voters when he pledged not to go on a killing spree. But, like most politicians he promised more than he could deliver.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Looks like it is going to be blamed on the Para's being out of control, not on any orders given. how predictable

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cameron
    Cameron says the conclusions are that what happened was unjustified and unjustifiable. "It was wrong." The first shot was fired by the British army.

    In no case was any warning given by soldiers, Cameron says.


    None of the casualties was posing a threat of death or serious injury, Cameron says.

    Cameron says he is "deeply sorry".
    About Damn Time!!
    The first robot president won by exactly one vote. Ah, yes! John Quincy Adding Machine. He struck a chord with the voters when he pledged not to go on a killing spree. But, like most politicians he promised more than he could deliver.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Not premediated apparently

    Ford and McGuinness just being excused

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron

    Cameron says the responsibility for Bloody Sunday lies with the soldiers
    So it goes no further. That was always on the cards I suppose.
    The first robot president won by exactly one vote. Ah, yes! John Quincy Adding Machine. He struck a chord with the voters when he pledged not to go on a killing spree. But, like most politicians he promised more than he could deliver.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by BrendanGalway View Post
    So it goes no further. That was always on the cards I suppose.
    Yeah, that was the extent of Savilles remit

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Harman, asking what is the situation regarding immunity from prosecution

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Prosecution decisions should be independant, and fall on the Director of Public prosecutions for Northern Ireland

    On Immunity, The AG in 1999 stated that witness' would not be used to predujice them in the event of a criminal investigation

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Very Interesting Statement :

    Quote Originally Posted by Blog
    I've just been handed a copy of the 60-page summary of the report. Here are the final two sentences :

    "What happened on Bloody Sunday strengthened the Provisional IRA, increased nationalist resentment and hostility towards the army and exacerbated the violent conflict of the years that followed. Bloody Sunday was a tragedy for the bereaved and the wounded, and a catastrophe for the people of Northern Ireland. "
    And yet the same Army continues to occupy Iraq and Afganistan giving rise to exactly what is described above. Either you learn from History or you are doomed to repeat it.
    The first robot president won by exactly one vote. Ah, yes! John Quincy Adding Machine. He struck a chord with the voters when he pledged not to go on a killing spree. But, like most politicians he promised more than he could deliver.

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