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Thread: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry Report

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    Default Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry Report

    The Saville Enquiry was set up in 1998 to investigate the events of Bloody Sunday, 1972, when 14 people taking part in a civil rights demonstration were shot dead by British soldiers.

    The report is due to be published in less than a month. It has just been announced that the report will go under legal review under Saville's hands rather than being passed to Government.

    Families are anxious that the Report should be published before Parliament is dissolved.

    I'm starting this thread for discussion of Bloody Sunday, its political impacts and of the enquiry itself.



    It was originally intended that the report into the shooting dead of 14 people by the British Army in Derry in 1972 would be passed to Northern Ireland Secretary of State Shaun Woodward next week - and the legal exercise would then commence.



    But the inquiry papers, which took 12 years to compile at a cost of £200m (€224m), will now be reviewed while still under Saville's control.

    Last edited by C. Flower; 16-06-2010 at 07:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    It looks as if there is little or no chance of the Saville Report being published before the General Election.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/b...on-450978.html

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Remember the acceptance of Widgery? ... quite stark reading decades on. Cold blooded even.
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Without wishing to pre-empt the report, we pretty much know what happened. The Paras were wound up like clockwork by their superiors, told that the existence of Free Derry was an affront to the British and was making them look weak, and that, just like in Kenya, the natives had to be taught a lesson. They used the cover of a snatch operation in relation to what they deemed 'hooligans' to make their point. The superiors themselves were put under pressure from the political establishment in Whitehall and Stormont to take whatever action they saw fit to impose 'discipline'. It wasn't a situation in which the Paras were confronted with any particular danger, they were well used to kids throwing stones at them. Two of the deaths in particular make a mockery of the version of events often pushed that it was a situation that had simply got out of control. Patrick Doherty was on the ground, already wounded, and was shot at a number of times over a period of time even though he was clearly grounded and no threat to anyone. Bullet after bullet was fired until the one that killed him hit him (basically went in his rear end on the floor and went through him). Prior to that he had called for help and was crying that he didn't want to die alone. Barney McGuigan, a man in his 40s who I think was a steward on the march, went out holding a white cloth to help him. He was in clear sight as being unarmed and no danger when he was shot in the head. Both of those killings were clearly not moments of the Paras 'panicking', or reacting too harshly to a difficult situation. They were cold, deliberate, calm acts of murder, cool as a cucumber. The Paras knew what was going on that day, hence the planting of nail-bombs afterwards. If the Inquiry finds that it was simply a tragic day in which things got 'out of control', it'll be a complete travesty. It was a pre-planned massacre...

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    Without wishing to pre-empt the report, we pretty much know what happened. The Paras were wound up like clockwork by their superiors, told that the existence of Free Derry was an affront to the British and was making them look weak, and that, just like in Kenya, the natives had to be taught a lesson. They used the cover of a snatch operation in relation to what they deemed 'hooligans' to make their point. The superiors themselves were put under pressure from the political establishment in Whitehall and Stormont to take whatever action they saw fit to impose 'discipline'. It wasn't a situation in which the Paras were confronted with any particular danger, they were well used to kids throwing stones at them. Two of the deaths in particular make a mockery of the version of events often pushed that it was a situation that had simply got out of control. Patrick Doherty was on the ground, already wounded, and was shot at a number of times over a period of time even though he was clearly grounded and no threat to anyone. Bullet after bullet was fired until the one that killed him hit him (basically went in his rear end on the floor and went through him). Prior to that he had called for help and was crying that he didn't want to die alone. Barney McGuigan, a man in his 40s who I think was a steward on the march, went out holding a white cloth to help him. He was in clear sight as being unarmed and no danger when he was shot in the head. Both of those killings were clearly not moments of the Paras 'panicking', or reacting too harshly to a difficult situation. They were cold, deliberate, calm acts of murder, cool as a cucumber. The Paras knew what was going on that day, hence the planting of nail-bombs afterwards. If the Inquiry finds that it was simply a tragic day in which things got 'out of control', it'll be a complete travesty. It was a pre-planned massacre...
    I agree that it was a pre-planned and utterly cold-headed massacre. Tactically, I think it was intended to drive mass protest off the street and to corall people into violent reaction, after which they could be marginalised, and picked off.

    The IDF use similar tactics against the Palestinians.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    The publication of the enquiry has been announced for June 15th.

    http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org...new/index.html

    A socialist blog here - http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/200...what-happened/

    on the delay in publication:


    From this perspective the history of Bloody Sunday is relatively clear-cut. The British used military power to force the Civil Rights movement from the streets. As part of the operation they ran a fictional story about a confrontation with the IRA and planted pipe bombs on the bodies of the victims. A judicial enquiry led by Lord Justice Widgery applied a liberal coat of whitewash and the incident was buried. The Bloody Sunday operation was partly successful. Although it did not end street protests and fed into an armed resistance, they did give the capitalist politicians and the local Communist Party the excuse to pull back and oppose further mobilizations.
    The Saville Enquiry has to do with the weaknesses of the Provisional republicans. They became a mass organization immediately following the massacre on the basis of a popular understanding that the best way to call finis to Ireland’s history of Bloody Sundays, Mondays and every other day of the week was to expel the British. Unfortunately their lack of class politics and reliance on militarism made them unequal to the task.
    Militarism proved unequal to the task. The Provos never mounted any real challenge to Irish capitalism and, when they were pushed back, Irish nationalism and the Catholic Church led them to political capitulation and acceptance of continued British rule. It became necessary to propose ways to resolve outstanding issues. The Provos, in secret negotiations, suggested that the British say sorry. The British declined, proposing the old standby of another enquiry and the morass of the Saville investigation was born. As with many other aspects of the peace process it works better floating in mid-air than when touching ground, being able to absorb endless legal fees and tons of statements and documents until faced with the necessity of reaching an outcome. This has proved difficult since the tribunal closed its doors six years ago.
    Interesting, but doesn't spell out in any detail how else people could have acted after Bloody Sunday.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 26-05-2010 at 05:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    Without wishing to pre-empt the report, we pretty much know what happened. The Paras were wound up like clockwork by their superiors, told that the existence of Free Derry was an affront to the British and was making them look weak, and that, just like in Kenya, the natives had to be taught a lesson. They used the cover of a snatch operation in relation to what they deemed 'hooligans' to make their point. The superiors themselves were put under pressure from the political establishment in Whitehall and Stormont to take whatever action they saw fit to impose 'discipline'. It wasn't a situation in which the Paras were confronted with any particular danger, they were well used to kids throwing stones at them. Two of the deaths in particular make a mockery of the version of events often pushed that it was a situation that had simply got out of control. Patrick Doherty was on the ground, already wounded, and was shot at a number of times over a period of time even though he was clearly grounded and no threat to anyone. Bullet after bullet was fired until the one that killed him hit him (basically went in his rear end on the floor and went through him). Prior to that he had called for help and was crying that he didn't want to die alone. Barney McGuigan, a man in his 40s who I think was a steward on the march, went out holding a white cloth to help him. He was in clear sight as being unarmed and no danger when he was shot in the head. Both of those killings were clearly not moments of the Paras 'panicking', or reacting too harshly to a difficult situation. They were cold, deliberate, calm acts of murder, cool as a cucumber. The Paras knew what was going on that day, hence the planting of nail-bombs afterwards. If the Inquiry finds that it was simply a tragic day in which things got 'out of control', it'll be a complete travesty. It was a pre-planned massacre...
    Is it true that the same soldiers or some of them anyway also took part in the other bloody massacre of the early troubles, Ballymurphy?

    http://ballymurphymassacre.com/index.html

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerday Sands View Post
    Is it true that the same soldiers or some of them anyway also took part in the other bloody massacre of the early troubles, Ballymurphy?

    http://ballymurphymassacre.com/index.html

    How was it possible that that happened without anything like the outrage that there rightly was after Bloody Sunday ?

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerday Sands View Post
    Is it true that the same soldiers or some of them anyway also took part in the other bloody massacre of the early troubles, Ballymurphy?
    The same units involved in both as far as I know, yes. Makes a complete mockery of the (already ridiculous) "inexperienced troops panicked" story.

    The British version of Bloody Sunday is so completely absurd and so at variance with all fact, logic and common sense that you really would have to worry about the mental state and capabilities of any cabbage that takes it remotely seriously.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    The same units involved in both as far as I know, yes. Makes a complete mockery of the (already ridiculous) "inexperienced troops panicked" story.

    The British version of Bloody Sunday is so completely absurd and so at variance with all fact, logic and common sense that you really would have to worry about the mental state and capabilities of any cabbage that takes it remotely seriously.
    Thanks Sidewinder.

    This French documentary has some fascinating footage from the day.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yxlVlAPzo4"]YouTube- The Ulster Troubles (Part 18 of 24)[/ame]

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post

    The Saville Enquiry was set up in 1998 to investigate the events of Bloody Sunday, 1972, when 14 people taking part in a civil rights demonstration.

    The report is due to be published in less than a month. It has just been announced that the report will go under legal review under Saville's hands rather than being passed to Government.

    Families are anxious that the Report should be published before Parliament is dissolved.

    I'm starting this thread for discussion of Bloody Sunday, its political impacts and of the enquiry itself.





    It should be remembered that 26 people were shot by the brits that day.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    The Report will be published tomorrow.

    It'll be a big day in Derry tomorrow.

    http://news.ie.msn.com/article.aspx?...ntid=153769581
    Last edited by C. Flower; 14-06-2010 at 08:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    According to the BBC, they are expecting 10,000 people in the Guildhall Square tomorrow to watch Cameron's statement to the Commons on a large screen.

    Interesting to see the reaction to what he has to say.
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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Families are reading the Report in the Guildhall, Derry.

    The Guardian has a minute by minute update here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/...orthernireland

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    Default Re: Bloody Sunday - Publication of the Saville Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Families are reading the Report in the Guildhall, Derry.

    The Guardian has a minute by minute update here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/...orthernireland
    Cheers for the good link. It has just posted that the report will be published at 3.30 today. Cameron will address the Commons at the same time.

    I dont know how likely a satisfactory verdict is. I just cant see them laying the blame at the door of the Soldiers, Commanders and even the Political Class. (Especially since Britain is involved in two occupations in the Middle East).

    The Families of Liverpool FC supporters have tried for decades also to get Satisafaction and Prosecutions for the Hillsboro disaster. They are still trying. Accountability may be the Worlds rarest substance.
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