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Thread: 70th Anniversary of the assassination of Leon Trotsky

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    Default 70th Anniversary of the assassination of Leon Trotsky

    Here's an article on the legacy of Leon Trotsky, the great revolutionary and theoretician, who was killed 70 years ago this month by Ramón Mercador, a stalinist agent.

    http://socialistworld.net/doc/4451
    Last edited by C. Flower; 19-08-2010 at 07:30 AM.
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    Leon Trotsky, the great revolutionary and theoretician
    Do you mean Leon Trotsky, the homicidal maniac who ordered the sailors of Kronstadt to be shot "like partridges"?

    Leon Trotsky - a mass murderer, not the true champion of the working class.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Thanks for pointing this out antiestablishmentarian.

    I understand there is a mass of new documentation about Trotsky that has come out in Russia in the last few years.

    That would be the Trotsky who lead the Red Army and also who put down the Kronstadt mutiny, one and the same.

    Perhaps this thread can be a slow burner to allow for some more in-depth discussion.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    who put down the Kronstadt mutiny
    A quick recap of that 'mutiny. In 1921 the Sailors of Kronstadt, who played a major role in the revolution of 1917, were demanding the following:

    1. Immediate new elections to the Soviets. The present Soviets no longer express the wishes of the workers and peasants. The new elections should be held by secret ballot, and should be preceded by free electoral propaganda.
    2. Freedom of speech and of the press for workers and peasants, for the Anarchists, and for the Left Socialist parties.
    3. The right of assembly, and freedom for trade union and peasant organisations.
    4. The organisation, at the latest on 10 March 1921, of a Conference of non-Party workers, soldiers and sailors of Petrograd, Kronstadt and the Petrograd District.
    5. The liberation of all political prisoners of the Socialist parties, and of all imprisoned workers and peasants, soldiers and sailors belonging to working class and peasant organisations.
    6. The election of a commission to look into the dossiers of all those detained in prisons and concentration camps.
    7. The abolition of all political sections in the armed forces. No political party should have privileges for the propagation of its ideas, or receive State subsidies to this end. In the place of the political sections various cultural groups should be set up, deriving resources from the State.
    8. The immediate abolition of the militia detachments set up between towns and countryside.
    9. The equalisation of rations for all workers, except those engaged in dangerous or unhealthy jobs.
    10. The abolition of Party combat detachments in all military groups. The abolition of Party guards in factories and enterprises. If guards are required, they should be nominated, taking into account the views of the workers.
    11. The granting to the peasants of freedom of action on their own soil, and of the right to own cattle, provided they look after them themselves and do not employ hired labour.
    12. We request that all military units and officer trainee groups associate themselves with this resolution.
    13. We demand that the Press give proper publicity to this resolution.
    14. We demand the institution of mobile workers' control groups.
    15. We demand that handicraft production be authorised provided it does not utilise wage labour.
    For these quite legitimate demands they were crushed. Now putting down a mutiny is one thing, issuing orders that the survivors have "to be shot down like partridges" is quite another. 2168 sailors have been slaughtered in Trotsky’s subsequent massacre.

    Sorry to burst some revolutionary bubbles, but the man was a bloodthirsty sicko and his criticism of Stalin utterly hypocritical.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 18-08-2010 at 02:56 PM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    A quick recap of that 'mutiny. In 1921 the Sailors of Kronstadt, who played a major role in the revolution of 1917, were demanding the following:

    For these quite legitimate demands they were crushed. Now putting down a mutiny is one thing, issuing orders that the survivors have "to be shot down like partridges" is quite another. 2168 sailors have been slaughtered in Trotsky’s subsequent massacre.

    Sorry to burst some revolutionary bubbles, but the man was a bloodthirsty sicko and his criticism of Stalin utterly hypocritical.
    You're concern for the morality of the left is touching.
    The only reference I can find (apart from unsourced blogging) for your quote has an anarchist in NY using that phrase to Trotsky.
    http://books.google.ie/books?id=g4Yn...ridges&f=false
    Last edited by C. Flower; 18-08-2010 at 08:59 PM.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Trotsky wired this infamous order to Grigory Zinoviev, whom he later tried to blame for the 'repression' (as Trotzky referred to massacre) of the "dandified and well-fed parasites" (as Trotzky referred to the Sailors of Kronstadt).

    The same Zinoviev played a major role in Trotsky's political demise.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 18-08-2010 at 04:02 PM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Trotsky wired this infamous order to Grigory Zinoviev, whom he later tried to blame for 'repression' (as Trotzky referred to massacre) of the "dandified and well-fed parasites" (as Trotzky referred to the Sailors of Kronstadt).

    The same Zinoviev played a major role in Trotsky's political demise.
    Is that the Zinoviev who wrote the "letter" LOL.

    Without a linked source, I can't take that seriously.

    There is an enormous amount of fictional material about the Bolsheviks circulating.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Is that the Zinoviev who wrote the "letter" LOL.

    Without a linked source, I can't take that seriously.

    There is an enormous amount of fictional material about the Bolsheviks circulating.
    Indeed.
    But you have to tip your beard to the dalliance with Frida Kahlo.
    Great taste from an artisitic p.o.v. Tough on his long suffering Missus.
    Stalin devoted a huge amount to rewriting the history of the period and maligning Trotsky.
    (Not that the man wasn't a Patton)
    Ergo the phrase - well one that i use - 'to get Trotskied' - to get disappeared out of something.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 18-08-2010 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Trotsky also said, since he was all innocent and had nothing to do with with the events in Kronstadt: "Whether there were any needless victims I do not know."

    Of course it was ridiculous to expect that he [Trostky] would beat his chest and say, "I, too, was but human and made mistakes. I, too, have sinned and have killed my brothers or ordered them to be killed."
    from Trotsky Protests Too Much

    Now here's something that's news to me:

    Towards the end of the revolt Trotsky sanctioned the use of chemical warfare against the rebels and if they had not been crushed, a gas attack would have been carried out.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Trotsky also said, since he was all innocent and had nothing to do with with the events in Kronstadt: "Whether there were any needless victims I do not know."

    from Trotsky Protests Too Much

    Now here's something that's news to me:

    Now that's more interesting, but Goldman was an enemy of the Bolsheviks and a direct participant in events.


    http://www.j-grit.com/radicals-emma-...-anarchist.php

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Is that the Zinoviev who wrote the "letter" LOL.

    Without a linked source, I can't take that seriously.
    No, it was Trotsky who wrote the "letter"

    Trying to portray himself as some smalltime apparatchik, yet he can't hide his contempt for the victims.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 18-08-2010 at 04:36 PM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    No, it was Trotsky who wrote the "letter"
    I think she was referring to the infamous Zinoviev letter that led to the fall of the Labour government in Britain.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Might it be an idea that ANY quotation in a discussion such as this should be clearly identified by checkable source? All I've read of Trotsky makes the 'partridges' notion wholly unbelievable, for all that the Kronstat mutineers were clearly counter-revolutionary when it was still (just) possible to imagine revolutionary success.
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    When I searched for Trotsky and partridges, Google brought me straight back to this thread

    There was a reference there somewhere to a US anarchist who said he had accused Trotsky of "wanting to shoot us down like partridges" (the link is in one of my earlier posts). I guess this is the origin of the Chinese whisper.

    On Kronstadt, given the very tough conditions in Russia and the extent of external and internal attacks on the revolution, the list of demands looks like a request to stand down social revolution in exchange for a workers co-operative.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 18-08-2010 at 04:56 PM.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversary of the assasination of Leon Trotsky

    Were there really 10,000 Bolsheviks killed by the Mutineers? I think I read that somewhere once but it seems an extraordinary number....
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 18-08-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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