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Thread: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

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    Default Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Maurice Neliigan, retired cardiac surgeon from the Mater Hospital, has written to the Times and said on RTE radio that the Mater site is all wrong for a childrens' hospital and that the project should be put on hold until we have the money to do it the right way in the right place.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...275535995.html

    His points were

    - the site is too small and too difficult to access by car
    - there's no green space and it would be bad for children
    - the "international experts" cited as supporting it weren't asked about the site and hadn't visited it.
    - some consultation of experts was just a phone call
    - we should stop building overpriced vanity projects and should build something functional
    - NAMA will provide loads of sites and the choice should be revisited.

    He was clear enough that the bad decision was made as a result of the influence of Bertie Ahern, the then Taoiseach, who was thanked by the Mater for his pains in an email that became public.

    Money has been allocated for this project under the reduced NDP (400 million, I think). Wouldn't it be better to use resources to keep nursing staff in employment, rather than into a 16 storey glass tower in the wrong place ?

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Maurice Neliigan, retired cardiac surgeon from the Mater Hospital, has written to the Times and said on RTE radio that the Mater site is all wrong for a childrens' hospital and that the project should be put on hold until we have the money to do it the right way in the right place.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...275535995.html

    His points were

    - the site is too small and too difficult to access by car
    - there's no green space and it would be bad for children
    - the "international experts" cited as supporting it weren't asked about the site and hadn't visited it.
    - some consultation of experts was just a phone call
    - we should stop building overpriced vanity projects and should build something functional
    - NAMA will provide loads of sites and the choice should be revisited.

    He was clear enough that the bad decision was made as a result of the influence of Bertie Ahern, the then Taoiseach, who was thanked by the Mater for his pains in an email that became public.

    Money has been allocated for this project under the reduced NDP (400 million, I think). Wouldn't it be better to use resources to keep nursing staff in employment, rather than into a 16 storey glass tower in the wrong place ?
    I have to agree with Maurice on this one, I think it should be on a greenfield site co-located with a major adult hospital move the Mater at the same time and put it under state control, i.e. take the nuns out of the equation.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    I agree with the idea of a green field site re-located with the Mater hospital. The current site while ideally located near the Mater is on a very small site with little or no space for parking a car. An essential I would have thought when dealing with sick children and upset parents. Who on earth is going to think of feeding a meter when a child is lying critically ill?

    Maybe that's the idea. Its a sure certain way of extracting money either through meter fees or clamping cars.

    And as for taking the nuns out of the equation. While it has its merits we need not be in a hurry to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It was while the nuns were in charge that hygiene was a priority in the hospitals. Was MRSA even conceived in those days.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by concernedparent View Post
    I agree with the idea of a green field site re-located with the Mater hospital. The current site while ideally located near the Mater is on a very small site with little or no space for parking a car. An essential I would have thought when dealing with sick children and upset parents. Who on earth is going to think of feeding a meter when a child is lying critically ill?

    Maybe that's the idea. Its a sure certain way of extracting money either through meter fees or clamping cars.

    And as for taking the nuns out of the equation. While it has its merits we need not be in a hurry to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It was while the nuns were in charge that hygiene was a priority in the hospitals. Was MRSA even conceived in those days.
    I hope you don't believe Nuns are the only one who can get rid of MRSA. Good managers will ensure proper hygiene and sack those who refuse to comply including consultants and the problem will be sorted swiftly.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankSpeaks View Post
    I hope you don't believe Nuns are the only one who can get rid of MRSA. Good managers will ensure proper hygiene and sack those who refuse to comply including consultants and the problem will be sorted swiftly.
    I heard Nelligan on the radio once saying how great the nuns were on hygience and - without criticism - that they used to wash disposable gloves, throw them in a bucket and re-use them...

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    No I dont believe that nuns are the only ones that can get rid of MRSA.

    Anyone can, but it requires a determination, an ability to take and accept responsibility and do a job well. Yes perhaps even going that extra mile.

    In other words it might mean longer hours than 9-5. In many cases the nuns had the freedom to work the extra hours. I am not saying they always did but in many cases the commitment was there.

    The problem is finding someone who will sign up to the job description and the c**p it could entail.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    *****************
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Surely there is somewhere better than a really rough part of a very congested city for this hospital? like on a motorway? Imagine if we had a large hospital on a Motorway like the M50 (Blanchardstown, Tallaght or Beaumont).

    Imagine putting the hospital in the middle of the country in Athlone?
    I can see the logic of DUblin in that the best of staff in the other paed hospitals are there, but if it is Dublin please put it beside a real road and stop pretending we are all going to cycle to the bloody place.

    The Mater is a crazy location. The Luas? How do you bring a child in a wheel chair, or immuno-compromised or for dialysis from Co Clare on the Luas, or from Skerris or Blackrock? If your child needs to go to Dublin, they are sick, they are not going to the zoo on the Luas. This is a celtic tiger folly of an idea.

    Seriously imagine a sick child from 100 miles away staying for months in the place and people trying to visit?
    Imagine bringing a sick child in a car up weekly and not being able to park easily near the door? It is utter utter nonsense.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Xray View Post
    Surely there is somewhere better than a really rough part of a very congested city for this hospital? like on a motorway? Imagine if we had a large hospital on a Motorway like the M50 (Blanchardstown, Tallaght or Beaumont).

    Imagine putting the hospital in the middle of the country in Athlone?
    I can see the logic of DUblin in that the best of staff in the other paed hospitals are there, but if it is Dublin please put it beside a real road and stop pretending we are all going to cycle to the bloody place.

    The Mater is a crazy location. The Luas? How do you bring a child in a wheel chair, or immuno-compromised or for dialysis from Co Clare on the Luas, or from Skerris or Blackrock? If your child needs to go to Dublin, they are sick, they are not going to the zoo on the Luas. This is a celtic tiger folly of an idea.

    Seriously imagine a sick child from 100 miles away staying for months in the place and people trying to visit?
    Imagine bringing a sick child in a car up weekly and not being able to park easily near the door? It is utter utter nonsense.
    Not everyone has a car. Poorer families have more sickness and are less likely to be car owners. A site needs to be found that has good public transport and good car access. Does Crumlin not fit that bill, with plenty of buses and luas?
    Closeness to national rail would be an advantage too.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Good public transport to a hospital for children is a slight irrelevance in the overall context of its location.

    While necessary for those attending outpatient appointments and non acute cases you are still not going to bring a sick child on a bus.

    You are also not going to bring a sick child up from the country in the middle of the night on public transport.

    Because there isn't any.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by concernedparent View Post
    Good public transport to a hospital for children is a slight irrelevance in the overall context of its location.

    While necessary for those attending outpatient appointments and non acute cases you are still not going to bring a sick child on a bus.

    You are also not going to bring a sick child up from the country in the middle of the night on public transport.

    Because there isn't any.
    What about people without cars who do have to bring children to outpatients - which I guess is the largest group attending ?

    A site can be found that has both public transport and car access.
    The Mater has neither.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    I've opposed this from the get go.
    The proposed development of the Mater is completely inappropriate in its current form.
    Bertie Ahern is pushing this one because it will persuade his constituents to reelect him yet again.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by musashi View Post
    I've opposed this from the get go.
    The proposed development of the Mater is completely inappropriate in its current form.
    Bertie Ahern is pushing this one because it will persuade his constituents to reelect him yet again.
    +1
    Lots of dosh to be made from the carpark alone! There's loads of unused building land now so a new hospital built from scratch in a nice green wooded area might prove to be more economical that that mess on the North Circular Road!

    Same can be said for the other mess across the road.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by greengoose View Post
    +1
    Lots of dosh to be made from the carpark alone! There's loads of unused building land now so a new hospital built from scratch in a nice green wooded area might prove to be more economical that that mess on the North Circular Road!

    Same can be said for the other mess across the road.
    The Mater is a mutant mix of old and new medical facilities that I've used several times in the past (all good experiences save one) as for the place across the road I've never had the pleasure, touch wood.

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    Default Re: Nelligan - National Childrens' Hospital Site - Wrong Site Picked for Political Reasons

    As usual the decision concerning the location of the new children's hospital was a political one and when you read of the 'consultations' that took place it confirms what right thinking people know. That decisions of this ilk are not based on reasoned intelligent discussion based on the patients using the facility and the transport services available, but on pur political expediency.

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