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Thread: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

  1. #1
    People Korps Guest

    Default Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    Evening Herald broke the story that Sargent wrote to a guard to influence a case. It turns out that that may have been illegal and falls under 1974 act which set up the DPP office.

  2. #2
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    Sargent resigns

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    Sargent resigns
    Carole Coulter on the legal implications of "unlawful" approaches to the Gardai.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking62.html

    Who's next ?

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    Exclamation Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    That'll teach the Greens not to brag about taking Fianna Fail scalps!

    Seems to me we now have a 'civil war' between both Government parties.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    That'll teach the Greens not to brag about taking Fianna Fail scalps!

    Seems to me we now have a 'civil war' between both Government parties.
    Extraordinary if they are prepared to have a scrap when the government is already so destabilised.

    Sargent's resignation statement can be heard here:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking65.html

    Carole Coulter's article in the Irish Times on the legal issues has been taken down from the website - when I looked at it again it was headed "Not to be Published".

    It seemed to me to be a straightforward account of the current law.

    Although the implications were that Sargant's action was not criminal but "unlawful" - exactly what RTE said.

  6. #6
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    Exclamation Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    !! DO NOT PUBLISH !!

    It is "unlawful" for anyone not directly connected with a case to attempt to influence the DPP or a member of the Garda Síochána seeking to influence the taking of a prosecution. However, while it is unlawful under the 1974 Prosecutions of Offences Act, it is not a criminal offence to do so, and the Act seems designed to protect gardaí and officials in the DPP's offices from such approaches, rather than punish the person making them. The Act does not contain any penalty for the making of representations about prosecutions. The law appears to have been designed to protect politicians from being asked to make requests on behalf of constituents seeking to have prosecutions either dropped or initiated. Some years ago the DPP, James Hamilton wrote to the then ceann comhairle and the leader of the Seanad drawing their attention to this section of the Act, and asking them to draw it to the attention of members of the Oireachtas.

    The 1974 Act states: "It shall not be lawful to communicate with [the Attorney General, the DPP, a member of the Garda Síochána or a solicitor acting on their behalf] for the purpose of influencing [the] making of a decision to withdraw or not to initiate criminal proceedings or any particular charge in criminal proceedings."

    It continues that if anyone in such an official capacity becomes aware of such a communication, it is their duty not to entertain it further. However, either the defendant, the complainant, a member of their family, their lawyer or medical adviser may communicate with the gardaí or the office of the DPP on their behalf. Trevor Sargent was clearly not acting in any such capacity when he wrote to the Balbriggan Garda. His communication was therefore unlawful under the Act and under the same Act the garda in question was obliged to ignore it, and should have informed Mr Sargent that making such a request was, in itself, unlawful. There is a procedure in the DPP's office for dealing with such communications, whereby they all go to a separate section within the office, and they are not even seen by the DPP or the official dealing with the case, according to the DPP. James Hamilton told The Irish Times the author of such communication is written to and informed of the relevant section of the Act, and the fact that such a communication is unlawful.

    In addition to this Act, there is a common law (non-statutory) offence of perverting the course of justice, which carries a term of imprisonment up to life, though those convicted have usually received sentences in low single figures. As it is a common law offence, it is difficult to be exhaustive about how and when it arises, but it includes knowingly making a false statement in the course of an investigation, fabricating or destroying evidence, or using threats or inducements to influence a witness or a member of the Garda Síochána. None of these arise in this case. What did occur, however, was an attempt to influence the course of an investigation and prosecution which was unlawful and, at best, unwise. The last time a Minister of State attempted to influence the outcome of a criminal case was when Bobby Molloy, contacted a judge hearing a rape case to enquire whether he had received a letter from the brother of the accused. The approach was not illegal, but it was highly inappropriate, and Mr Molloy apologised to Mr Justice Philip O'Sullivan, to the Central Criminal Court and to the victim for the contact. This was not enough, however, and he then resigned.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  7. #7
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    at best it teaches the Greens that they are not saints and that they should be working IN government or get out now.

    If they are half hearted then forget tweets just resign otherwise, toe the line

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    at best it teaches the Greens that they are not saints and that they should be working IN government or get out now.

    If they are halfhearted then forget tweets just resign otherwise, toe the line

    capi di tutti capi stuff

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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    I bet FG are behind it, there are a line of bullets one after the other now, they all appear to have been saved up. Willie, Sargent, then ryanair. All old stories, all landing together just when heat was on Kenny. Kenny is no fool and totally underestimated politically. The government are in major trouble now. An election now is the stuff of nightmares and that is exactly what might happen. I actually thing it would be a good time for the greens to go. Waiting for the economy to pick up is going to be a long and fruitless wait.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    Kenny can never be Capi di Tutti Capi that would be thick

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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    I can't figure out why Trevor Sargents resignation is being spun as honourable.
    Granted, it's not as dishonourable as digging in his fingernails a-la Bertie Ahern, Willie O'Dea or the Bull. But he behaved unlawfully and he had to go. There is no honour in that, whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    Are we to judge politicians on the manner of their going rather than their actions (lawful and unlawful) when in office!

    I think Xray is right .... FG are not above devious machinations.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    I think the time to go for thr jugular as far as FG and Labour has arrived. An election now will do maximum damage. Waiting could lead to problems for Kenny. I dont think they have really tried to end this government until now. The next week or two will be interesting to say the least.

    Also I think anyone with a brain in the Greens can see that this might be their last chance to walk and save a couple of seats. Going into an election in two years times harping on about hard decsions is not going to get transfers, hammers FF and walking over something good might. I heard them yesterday talking about dublin mayor and civil partnership desperately trying to make excuses for staying til the summer. To me this says people are saying it is not worth waiting. FF are clever enough to keep the carrots a few months out all the time.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

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    Default Re: Trevor Sargent Leak - female garda arrested

    It's a day for politically-charged arrests. Will there be a third before nightfall?

    A female garda has been arrested in connection with the leaking of information which led to the resignation of Trevor Sargent.

    The former Junior Minister stepped down after a newspaper revealed he had written to gardaí about a constituent who was facing criminal proceedings.

    The garda who is aged in her 30's was arrested at 10.30am this morning and is being held at Lucan garda station.

    It is understood she was stationed at Balbriggan garda station at the time Mr Sargent wrote the letters, but has since transferred to another area.
    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/female-garda-held-in-connection-with-sargent-investigation-450473.html#ixzz0iXQ1uTmF

  15. #15
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Trevor Sargent in deep merde

    This is as I knew it was. Info had to have come from a cop.

    the idea that FF would f### the Greens that way was thick, does anyone seriously think either party want an election?

    I am convinced more by the day that most posters on politics esp across the way have no idea what politics really works like.

    It is also foolhardy to presume that there are no politicians in government who are sophisticated intellectually.

    Never under estimate the "other side", it will lead you to make fatal errors of judgment.

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