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Thread: Catalonia Demonstrations - Separatism and Regionalism in Europe

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Catalonia Demonstrations - Separatism and Regionalism in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    at about that time early 1700s Catalonia was independent for about 20yrs or so ..



    No i dont think so.... best analogy is without a doubt w the Scots.



    the Catalans I know feel catalans not exactly spanish ... but then again this could be bias of the people i tend to hang out with ..



    doubt very much you will ever see weeds growing in barcelona's sidewalks... anyway sounds they understand the economic consequences ... not everything is about money
    It's always about the money, especially when there are claims to the contrary.
    I don't know enough about it, and it's too hard to follow, but it seems this latest burst of independence activity has been driven by the Spanish economic crisis, which is only about money.
    I don't think I've ever met any modern independence secessionist movement that I felt was worthwhile. Well maybe one exception........Texas.

    Seems to me independence movements mostly have only two emotions, anger and victimhood, (neither of which are policies), but designed to whip up populist emotion, and they often engage in a lot of "fudging the numbers". The 67 cents returned from every Euro collected is a simplistic and incomplete narrative. Central government, because of scale, can provide some services, particularly capital intensive ones like education, health care, utilities, military, much more efficiently than local government. If the Catalan government were to take over all of these functions at the same level of service as currently provided I expect they would quickly experience sticker shock.


    Disclaimer: The foregoing should not be interpreted as my support for old colonial empires. I recognize that a balance between local and central authority needs to be found, but the independence people always only want to supplant the central authority.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  2. #107
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    Default Re: Catalonia Demonstrations - Separatism and Regionalism in Europe

    The recent study from the Catalan government associated thing seems to confirm that poorer people in Catalonia are against independence and it is very much a middle to upper class thing (page 404 of the big pdf if you cant sleep like me last night). One catch is that a top 1% are also anti (but such can not be confirmed with such small samples) . Also consider that Catalonia is seen as the richest region in Spain and I am supporting the main broad leftist line of allowing a proper legal referendum but calling for a NO vote
    http://ceo.gencat.cat/ceop/AppJava/p...+3a+onada+2017
    The Spanish paper El Pais has some graphs based on a 'CEO' so maybe the same source ? https://politica.elpais.com/politica...98_808440.html

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Catalonia Demonstrations - Separatism and Regionalism in Europe

    One of the tidbits that emerged from yesterday's tech hearings on Capitol Hill. The significance is that Whatsapp, Messenger etc. are much harder to "control" than the Facebook newsfeed.


    While much of the fake news conversation in the U.S. has been about what's spread via Facebook's News Feed, reports of misinformation spreading globally on Facebook's messenger properties, WhatsApp and Messenger, demonstrate another major problem for the global tech company.


    • In Catalonia, a journalist tells The Washington Post that they are aware of fake news being spread on WhatsApp, "but we've only been able to debunk those pieces that were sent to us by our users since Whatsapp is such a private system."

    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Catalonia Demonstrations - Separatism and Regionalism in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    One of the tidbits that emerged from yesterday's tech hearings on Capitol Hill. The significance is that Whatsapp, Messenger etc. are much harder to "control" than the Facebook newsfeed.


    While much of the fake news conversation in the U.S. has been about what's spread via Facebook's News Feed, reports of misinformation spreading globally on Facebook's messenger properties, WhatsApp and Messenger, demonstrate another major problem for the global tech company.


    • In Catalonia, a journalist tells The Washington Post that they are aware of fake news being spread on WhatsApp, "but we've only been able to debunk those pieces that were sent to us by our users since Whatsapp is such a private system."

    i dont use whatsapp or Messenger much (other than chatting w family in UK) but about the Facebook hack I have no doubt at all whatsoever that it was a major factor in flipping a crucial number of swing votes the week before the election .... the damage done the months before Trumps election is really hard to quantify but btw Comey statements about Clinton new investigations and the election (1 month before re-enforced by the same the week prior) whatever happened in my news feed is very good proof that the entire system was effectively hijacked by someone working on behalf of the Trumps. Even what I wrote here at the time is proof of what i saw, evidence. (Keep it safe somewhere.) I would even go as far as saying that not only FB and the populace was used as the FBI itself was hacked and had weaponized propaganda turned on them... and in my opinion, the fucktard criminal in the Ecuadorian embassy that helped all of this to materialize will eventually disappear.

  5. #110
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    Default Re: Catalonia Demonstrations - Separatism and Regionalism in Europe

    disgraceful. I was looking for a good article i read on the New Yorker but can't find right now and gotta go ..


    Ousted Catalan President Turns Himself In To Police In Brussels


    November 5, 201711:24 AM ET

    The prosecutor's office in Brussels says the former president of Catalonia, Carles Puigdemont, has turned himself in to police, along with several of his former government ministers. Now, a Belgian judge must decide whether to extradite the ousted officials to Spain, where they face charges of rebellion, sedition, and misuse of public funds for their roles in Catalonia's attempt to secede from Spain.


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