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Thread: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

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    Default No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    In February there were press reports based on Garda leaks claiming that there would be a number of arrests in relation to Anglo Irish Bank.

    Several employees of Anglo Irish Bank are expected to be arrested before the end of February as Gardaí continue their probe into the bank's activities. The investigation is understood to be focusing on the alleged falsification of loan documents and a Garda source said that the activities of a mid-single digit number of people are being concentrated upon.

    The Gardaí are likely to ask solicitors for copies of certain loan documentation in the coming weeks so they can compare them with those held by the bank.

    The bank is currently the subject of investigations by the Office of Director of Corporate Enforcement (ODCE) with assistance from the fraud squad. The ODCE had no comment last week. It is almost a year since the ODCE seized 20 large boxes of documents and computer records from the bank's headquarters on St Stephen's Green.
    There were a couple of brief arrests all right, including Sean Fitzpatrick's, but no prosecutions and it appears very little progress is being made.

    http://www.tribune.ie/business/artic...o-irish-staff/

    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0702/anglo.html

    Yesterday's Irish Times reported that the Director of the Corporate Enforcement (ODCE) expects the investigation into Anglo Irish to go on for "a year or two".

    This came out in the legal case in which the ODCE sought a waiver of claimed privilege from Anglo Irish Bank so the Office could obtain records for the investigation


    Mr Justice Peter Kelly said it was 'curious' that the ODCE had not formally requested the bank to waive legal privilege until it was raised by the Court.
    The judge refused an application for an extension of six months to the ODCE in relation to the retention of material seized during the investigation. He said he would grant an extension until November next and wants a progress report on what has 'already been a lengthy investigation'.
    Whatever about complexity of some of what they are looking at, it appears that there may be ample evidence to hand to make a case.

    Two weeks ago, exasperated with the slow progress of the investigation, Denis Casey formerly of ILP published an affadavit on back to back loans with Anglo Irish which made it clear that he had not been questioned by either the ODCE or the Gardaí.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source...1VbDPT6VvwlJdg

    FED UP with waiting around for gardaí and the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement (ODCE) to interview him about the flattering €7 billion circular deposits between Irish Life Permanent and Anglo Irish Bank in the run-up to the latter’s nationalisation, former ILP boss Denis Casey last week sought to move matters along. The sworn statement he sent to the Garda and the ODCE – 17 months into their investigations – provides an insight on relations between the two financial groups at the time.
    Only back in May, Paul Appleby, who has been Director of the ODCE for many years, said that the Anglo Irish investigation would be completed in months rather than years. What has changed from the time in May he launched the 2009 Annual Report to the time of the Court Case last week, when presumably his representatives were speaking on oath ?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...271297971.html

    I'm starting this thread so that we can follow the progress of the investigations by the ODCE and the Fraud Squad.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 03-07-2010 at 12:55 PM.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Great that you have started this thread CF we need to keep track of what is going on.

    I don't believe anything has changed just the usual stalling tactics to prevent any actions having to be taken.

    It's the inconvenience of having to come up with something to settle the public from time to time that irritates these people more than anything.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    It's good to see from the Annual Report 2009 that the ODCE has dealt with a couple of cases involving sums up to a million. When it comes to the Anglo Irish investigation Paul Appleby pleads that his staff are under pressure from liquidations of Companies.

    Has he asked the Government for more people for the investigation I wonder ?

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    If Paul Appleby is in any doubt about the commitment of the fraud squad, witnesses or resources he should damn well come out and say so or he risks being accused of being complicit in a cover up.

    Emily O'Reilly has done the right thing with her report this week. Does Mr Appleby not understand this?

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    If Paul Appleby is in any doubt about the commitment of the fraud squad, witnesses or resources he should damn well come out and say so or he risks being accused of being complicit in a cover up.

    Emily O'Reilly has done the right thing with her report this week. Does Mr Appleby not understand this?
    Mr. Appleby was involved in the Ansbacher investigation I believe. Was that famous for speed or extent of revelations ?

    From the Irish Times, 27 May 2010

    The investigation into Anglo Irish Bank has so far cost the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement €1m. Director Paul Appleby said he hoped the investigation would be wrapped up 'in a few months,' but declined to give a specific date.

    Between 16 and 18 people are working on the inquiry. The probe is currently focusing on loans to directors at the bank, the 'Golden Circle' investors and the back-to-back loans of €7.45bn from Irish Life & Permanent. Mr Appleby said 'gardaí are very satisfied with progress and good progress has been made.'

    He said his office would present the Director of Public Prosecutions with papers as soon as possible. He added 'my staff and I are well aware of the public's legitimate desire that these investigations should be concluded soon, and we are endeavouring to complete as quickly as is appropriate.'
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0527/angloirish.html

    So why was the story given by the ODCE to Judge Kelly a few days later that the enquiry would take "a year or two" more ?
    Last edited by C. Flower; 03-07-2010 at 01:00 PM.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    i wonder is this one of those famous 'up every tree in North County Dublin' investigations? There's enough information in the public environment alone to charge one or two senior individuals.

    16-18 people working for what ... between two and three years and they are yet to present papers to the DPP?

    Please don't tell me they are trying to uncover everything when a couple of major charges in relation to fraud would be enough?

    I'm starting to smell fish. 16-18 people with investigatory powers to take 5 years on something that is so rotten that much of what went on is in the public environment smells very bad.

    And the bent organisation in the middle of it are still arguing about what papers they'll allow to be handed over?

    WTF is going on here?

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    I'm starting to smell fish. 16-18 people with investigatory powers to take 5 years on something that is so rotten that much of what went on is in the public environment smells very bad.

    And the bent organisation in the middle of it are still arguing about what papers they'll allow to be handed over?

    WTF is going on here?
    Exactly what went on with Ansbacher, or Moriarty, or any other investigation/tribunal IMO - they're stringing it out until one of the minor figures involved shuffles off this mortal coil of natural causes, and then suddenly the investigation will kick into high gear and a few months later solemnly announce that the deceased individual was behind everything, that it has taken 12 years and €800m to discover this, and that we should all now move on.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Exactly what went on with Ansbacher, or Moriarty, or any other investigation/tribunal IMO - they're stringing it out until one of the minor figures involved shuffles off this mortal coil of natural causes, and then suddenly the investigation will kick into high gear and a few months later solemnly announce that the deceased individual was behind everything, that it has taken 12 years and €800m to discover this, and that we should all now move on.
    This is also a Garda / Fraud Squad investigation.

    Surely political considerations would not come into play ?

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    This is also a Garda / Fraud Squad investigation.

    Surely political considerations would not come into play ?
    You are joking, right?

    The Gardaí are probably the most corrupt and politically controlled "police" force in all of Europe. Up to their necks in it all, and always have been.

    How many Garda "investigations" into corruption and dodgy dealings among the political/builder class have completely failed to uncover anything at all, consistently over 30 years or more?

    People really need to stop believing that any of the Powers That Be in Ireland are on the side of the ordinary person, or of the rule of law.

    They're all gangsters.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Would a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman be in order ?

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Nothing surprises me with this. This state is steeped in Neo Feudalism. The people who are investigating and the people who are prosecuting are in the same cabal as the people who are responsible for all this to begin with. Its a financial carousel, only the peasants and serfs are prosecuted.
    "When people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fear the people we have liberty."

    Thomas Jefferson.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra Syndrome View Post
    Nothing surprises me with this. This state is steeped in Neo Feudalism. The people who are investigating and the people who are prosecuting are in the same cabal as the people who are responsible for all this to begin with. Its a financial carousel, only the
    peasants and serfs are prosecuted.
    That's exactly the case, with both the Regulator and the ODCE being consumed with zeal for pursuing small businesses for thousands while the billions went adrift with impunity.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    This is a link to the ODCE Annual Report 2009. It's clear that the Anglo Irish investigation is taking a lot of staff time, but it's not at all clear how many people are working on it. "About five" extra staff were taken on.

    http://www.odce.ie/en/media_press_re...0-d7a7a7cc3282


    The Financial Regulator and the ODCE are working together on this. I mistakenly said that the Fraud Squad were involved. So far as I know, the Garda investigation is separate. I'll check this out.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    I got a polite letter back to my question about the approximate date that the ODCE expects to finish the enquiry into Anglo Irish.


    I refer to your phonecall to this Office. With regard to the Anglo
    investigation, we are legally precluded under section 17, Company Law
    Enforcement Act 2001 from discussing the particular aspects of any
    investigation.

    All I can say is that it is proceeding satisfactorily. The
    Director has indicated publicly that he hopes to conclude the investigation
    in months rather than years. At the conclusion of our investigation, we
    would hope to be in a position to forward a file to the Director of Public
    Prosecutions. Ultimately it would be a decision for his office as to
    whether any charges are pressed, and against whom.

    I trust this is of some assistance.

    Kind regards

    Kevin Prendergast
    Corporate Compliance Manager
    Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement
    I'm considering my reply, but the interpretation of Section 17 seems a little circular to me.

    17.—(1) Information obtained by virtue of the performance by the Director of any of his or her functions which has not otherwise come to the notice of the public, shall not be disclosed, except in accordance with law, by any person, including—
    (a) the Director or a former Director,
    (b) a professional or other adviser (including a former adviser) to the Director, and
    (c) an officer or former officer of the Director.
    (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), information referred to in that subsection which, in the opinion of the Director, may be required—
    (a) for a purpose or reason specified in subsection (1) of section 21 of the Act of 1990,
    (b) for the performance by a competent authority (within the meaning of that section 21) of a function or functions of the authority, or
    (c) for the performance by the Director of a function or functions of the Director,
    may be disclosed by or under the authority of the Director to the extent that, in the opinion of the Director, is necessary for that purpose.
    (3) Notwithstanding subsection (1), information which, in the opinion of the Director or an officer of the Director, may relate to the commission of an offence which is not an offence under the Companies Acts may be disclosed to any member of An Garda Síochána.
    (4) A person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence.
    This has been already addressed more than once, and two separate dates given.

    Am I now to understand that Mr. Appleby was in breach of the Act when he gave out the information ?
    Last edited by C. Flower; 08-07-2010 at 09:32 PM.

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    Default Re: No Anglo Irish Prosecution "for Several Years"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I got a polite letter back to my question about the approximate date that the ODCE expects to finish the enquiry into Anglo Irish.



    I
    Am I now to understand that Mr. Appleby was in breach of the Act when he gave out the information ?
    Ambiguous that Section 17. One one hand the Director or any other person may not disclose information obtained by virtue of the performance of any of his functions..
    On the other hand there's the get out clause.
    I've read it a few times now and the meaning is swimming tantalisingly just beyond my grasp. Maybe I'll try again in the morning.
    There's an Alice in Wonderland Red Queen feeling about that section. Words pretty much mean what senior barristers want them to mean.

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