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Thread: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    Couple of years ago I spotted an interesting issue with John Hume case from 1972 (its a very short judgment 2 pages).

    The Brits were under the Jurisdiction of the NI Government which had no power to pass legislation conferring powers to the military, "accordingly, the purported conferment on officers and members of Her Majesty's forces of powers relating to military matters which had been created by legislation by or under the Parliament of Northern Ireland was void and of no effect."



    As we know, "The Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, Brian Faulkner, has introduced a new law giving the authorities the power to indefinitely detain suspected terrorists without trial. The decision by Stormont, the government in Northern Ireland, to implement the new measures was made in the wake of escalating violence and increased bombings in the province and the threat to Northern Ireland's economy." He had no authority to send the army in to make any arrests from 1969 to 1972.

    So when the Brits amended the law to protect the army from liability (passed through parliment in 24 hours) the law cannot be retrospective (make legal what were illegal arrests). The Brits were focused on protecting the soldiers involved from legal liability so no body could sue them. But that does address the other half of the equation --those illegally arrested from being recognized has having been arrested illegally -regardless of the soldiers being protected from liability --the Government still is liable for the illegal arrests. The numbers illegally arrested would be in thousands ie from 1969 until 1972 (covers Internment).

    This would also apply to anyone stopped and searched without arrest.
    Interesting post. Can you clarify who was legally in charge of security from the summer of 1971 until the fall of Stormont. I have never really understood who was technically in charge during this period. Take Bloody Sunday for example, I have always understood that Stormont gave the orders to the RUC but that Westminster gave the orders to the British Army. Had the Stormont leaders been unofficially told during this period that they were no longer in charge during this period?

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymalone View Post
    Interesting post. Can you clarify who was legally in charge of security from the summer of 1971 until the fall of Stormont. I have never really understood who was technically in charge during this period. Take Bloody Sunday for example, I have always understood that Stormont gave the orders to the RUC but that Westminster gave the orders to the British Army. Had the Stormont leaders been unofficially told during this period that they were no longer in charge during this period?
    Thank you. The difficulty arose from there being two Parliments --Stormont/Westminster. Stormont could make laws and collect taxes but the British Army are permanently under the Queen/Parliments command. While Stormont could introduce Internment it had no authority to instruct the BA to carry it out. Stormont had charge of security and could instruct RUC/B-Specials to enforce its laws, such as Internment, but it did not --it instructed the BA.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    Thank you. The difficulty arose from there being two Parliments --Stormont/Westminster. Stormont could make laws and collect taxes but the British Army are permanently under the Queen/Parliments command. While Stormont could introduce Internment it had no authority to instruct the BA to carry it out. Stormont had charge of security and could instruct RUC/B-Specials to enforce its laws, such as Internment, but it did not --it instructed the BA.
    These are interesting points you are raising. I'm not sure that a lot of people realise that the British Army had no legal jurisdiction in the North at that time. What was the Bloody Sunday Tribunal all about then, the soldiers had no legal basis for being on the streets? Has anyone else ever legally queried this? I'm just beginning to wonder were the British government deliberately trying to collapse the Stormont government themselves.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Suzanne Breen covers the massacre in today's Tribune:

    Ballymurphy massacre families reveal new evidence

    Ghosts of a Forgotten Massacre
    "Do not be misled by the promises of politicians. Remember that the whole history of Ireland is a record of betrayals by politicians and statesmen, and remembering this, spurn their lying promises and stand up for a United Ireland - an Ireland broad based upon the union of Labour and Nationality." - James Connolly.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    Thank you. The difficulty arose from there being two Parliments --Stormont/Westminster. Stormont could make laws and collect taxes but the British Army are permanently under the Queen/Parliments command. While Stormont could introduce Internment it had no authority to instruct the BA to carry it out. Stormont had charge of security and could instruct RUC/B-Specials to enforce its laws, such as Internment, but it did not --it instructed the BA.
    Are you sure that the army wasn't acting under direct orders from Westminster? Certainly at the time of Bloody Sunday orders were discussed by the Cabinet in London.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    The British parachute regiment was used as an instrument of terror. We had the experience in Tyrone in '92 and I can well remember their posture and behaviour; brutalisation was the mission objective and they went out of their way to achieve it. Considering the frequency with which the British govt, in this supposedly more enlightened era, has authorised catastrophic airstrikes on civilian targets in Afghanisaan I find it highly probable and indeed likely that the paras were on a lethal intimidation or inflammation mission both at Ballymurphy and Derry.
    "Do not be misled by the promises of politicians. Remember that the whole history of Ireland is a record of betrayals by politicians and statesmen, and remembering this, spurn their lying promises and stand up for a United Ireland - an Ireland broad based upon the union of Labour and Nationality." - James Connolly.

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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymalone View Post
    ... the soldiers had no legal basis for being on the streets?
    That is a different question, as C. Flower points out Westminster gave them a direct order sending them in, they were to keep the two communities apart at flash points. On one hand, Stormont extended their remit without having legal authority to do that, and on the other, the BA took orders from Stormont and not the Crown --the BA cannot take orders from anyone unless the Crown/westminster specifically gives them that instruction. As for Bloody Sunday, if the BA followed any orders given by Stormont and not Westminster then they were acting illegally form the outset --if Westminster(MoD) gave any instructions then no illegality arises. Read the Hume case I posted a link to it in my original post about this issue.

    To address your other point about who knows about this --Suzanne Breen states today (thanks to Cáthasaigh providing link) "The money has funded a report by Kevin Winters' solicitors. --he is my solicitor too and I ran it past him ages ago so I would expect to see some reference to it in the report.
    Last edited by Christy Walsh; 01-08-2010 at 09:46 PM.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    It was announced yesterday that there will be fresh inquests into the deaths of the ten people who were shot. The families have welcomed this, but still want an enquiry as inquests will only deal with the immediate cause of death, leaving many other questions unanswered.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    Who believed the story about Aiden McAnespie ? Not even Paisley would have believed that one.
    On the other hand we've been told that Adams deliberately held back a unit from going to the defence of beleaguered people on the grounds that it was good for the cause that they took a battering.
    And shots fired at troops in busy areas were called "teasers ". I don't know what that means myself.
    I do find it hard to believe no IRA battalions were around Derry to respond during the shootings. Where the **** where they when people were being killed is a good question...

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    Default Re: Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    I do find it hard to believe no IRA battalions were around Derry to respond during the shootings. Where the **** where they when people were being killed is a good question...
    Well for one, Ballymurphy is in Belfast and for seconds, even if IRA 'Batallions' existed in any normal sense of the word, they would have been poorly trained, under equipped and absolutely no match for a professional regiment, armed to the teeth with endless resources and especially in open confrontation. Hit and run was the only option.
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    Default Re: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    It's still a matter of shock to me that I hadn't heard about this until recently.

    I can only assume that it was because it was not filmed, in the way that Bloody Sunday was.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    A comparison here between a massacre of Malaysian villagers with the Ballymurphy massacre.

    http://www.organizedrage.com/2012/09...ween-1948.html

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    There will be no inquiry.

    Ballymurphy parachute regiment killings: NI Secretary says ‘no’ to Hillsborough-style probe

    This is in keeping with her comments earlier in the month:

    Any new process to examine NI's past must have a more "proportionate focus on the wrongdoing of paramilitaries" and less on the activities of the state, the secretary of state has said.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-27035793

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    Default Re: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post

    I missed that quote, but it is in tune with Haas and the whole intent to bury the role of the British State.

    They are still hiding what they did in Malaysia.

    The extent of brutality and murder carried out by the British Empire is a big dirty secret in full view.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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    Default Re: Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

    A man convicted of rioting in Ballymurphy in 1971 where soldiers shot dead his brother and nine other people has had his conviction overturned.

    Terry Laverty’s case had been referred to the Criminal Case Review Commission (CCRC) after a solider who was a key witness in the original trial retracted his statement.

    Speaking outside court today the 61-year-old said his name was now cleared, but that the conviction had been a heavy blow.

    “It’s not easy to describe the pain I went through.

    “My family was totally shattered, everyone of my brothers and sisters were totally shattered.

    “All along I was an innocent man, along with everyone else in Ballymurphy, the people who died.”

    He said all those affected by the tragic events in what has become known as the Ballymurphy massacre deserved to see the full truth of what happened revealed.
    http://www.thedetail.tv/issues/368/t...ion-overturned

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