Ballymurphy Massacre - Families call for inquiry into 11 deaths in 1971 by the Parachute Regiment

[jimmymalone]

Couple of years ago I spotted an interesting issue with John Hume case from 1972 (its a very short judgment 2 pages).

The Brits were under the Jurisdiction of the NI Government which had no power to pass legislation conferring powers to the military, "accordingly, the purported conferment on officers and members of Her Majesty's forces of powers relating to military matters which had been created by legislation by or under the Parliament of Northern Ireland was void and of no effect."



As we know, "The Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, Brian Faulkner, has introduced a new law giving the authorities the power to indefinitely detain suspected terrorists without trial. The decision by Stormont, the government in Northern Ireland, to implement the new measures was made in the wake of escalating violence and increased bombings in the province and the threat to Northern Ireland's economy." He had no authority to send the army in to make any arrests from 1969 to 1972.

So when the Brits amended the law to protect the army from liability (passed through parliment in 24 hours) the law cannot be retrospective (make legal what were illegal arrests). The Brits were focused on protecting the soldiers involved from legal liability so no body could sue them. But that does address the other half of the equation --those illegally arrested from being recognized has having been arrested illegally -regardless of the soldiers being protected from liability --the Government still is liable for the illegal arrests. The numbers illegally arrested would be in thousands ie from 1969 until 1972 (covers Internment).

This would also apply to anyone stopped and searched without arrest.

Interesting post. Can you clarify who was legally in charge of security from the summer of 1971 until the fall of Stormont. I have never really understood who was technically in charge during this period. Take Bloody Sunday for example, I have always understood that Stormont gave the orders to the RUC but that Westminster gave the orders to the British Army. Had the Stormont leaders been unofficially told during this period that they were no longer in charge during this period?

[Christy Walsh]

Interesting post. Can you clarify who was legally in charge of security from the summer of 1971 until the fall of Stormont. I have never really understood who was technically in charge during this period. Take Bloody Sunday for example, I have always understood that Stormont gave the orders to the RUC but that Westminster gave the orders to the British Army. Had the Stormont leaders been unofficially told during this period that they were no longer in charge during this period?

Thank you. The difficulty arose from there being two Parliments --Stormont/Westminster. Stormont could make laws and collect taxes but the British Army are permanently under the Queen/Parliments command. While Stormont could introduce Internment it had no authority to instruct the BA to carry it out. Stormont had charge of security and could instruct RUC/B-Specials to enforce its laws, such as Internment, but it did not --it instructed the BA.

[jimmymalone]

Thank you. The difficulty arose from there being two Parliments --Stormont/Westminster. Stormont could make laws and collect taxes but the British Army are permanently under the Queen/Parliments command. While Stormont could introduce Internment it had no authority to instruct the BA to carry it out. Stormont had charge of security and could instruct RUC/B-Specials to enforce its laws, such as Internment, but it did not --it instructed the BA.

These are interesting points you are raising. I'm not sure that a lot of people realise that the British Army had no legal jurisdiction in the North at that time. What was the Bloody Sunday Tribunal all about then, the soldiers had no legal basis for being on the streets? Has anyone else ever legally queried this? I'm just beginning to wonder were the British government deliberately trying to collapse the Stormont government themselves.

[Cáthasaigh]

Suzanne Breen covers the massacre in today's Tribune:

Ballymurphy massacre families reveal new evidence

Ghosts of a Forgotten Massacre

[C. Flower]

Thank you. The difficulty arose from there being two Parliments --Stormont/Westminster. Stormont could make laws and collect taxes but the British Army are permanently under the Queen/Parliments command. While Stormont could introduce Internment it had no authority to instruct the BA to carry it out. Stormont had charge of security and could instruct RUC/B-Specials to enforce its laws, such as Internment, but it did not --it instructed the BA.

Are you sure that the army wasn't acting under direct orders from Westminster? Certainly at the time of Bloody Sunday orders were discussed by the Cabinet in London.

[Cáthasaigh]

The British parachute regiment was used as an instrument of terror. We had the experience in Tyrone in '92 and I can well remember their posture and behaviour; brutalisation was the mission objective and they went out of their way to achieve it. Considering the frequency with which the British govt, in this supposedly more enlightened era, has authorised catastrophic airstrikes on civilian targets in Afghanisaan I find it highly probable and indeed likely that the paras were on a lethal intimidation or inflammation mission both at Ballymurphy and Derry.

[Christy Walsh]

... the soldiers had no legal basis for being on the streets?

That is a different question, as C. Flower points out Westminster gave them a direct order sending them in, they were to keep the two communities apart at flash points. On one hand, Stormont extended their remit without having legal authority to do that, and on the other, the BA took orders from Stormont and not the Crown --the BA cannot take orders from anyone unless the Crown/westminster specifically gives them that instruction. As for Bloody Sunday, if the BA followed any orders given by Stormont and not Westminster then they were acting illegally form the outset --if Westminster(MoD) gave any instructions then no illegality arises. Read the Hume case I posted a link to it in my original post about this issue.

To address your other point about who knows about this --Suzanne Breen states today (thanks to Cáthasaigh providing link) "The money has funded a report by Kevin Winters' solicitors. --he is my solicitor too and I ran it past him ages ago so I would expect to see some reference to it in the report.

[C. Flower]

It was announced yesterday that there will be fresh inquests into the deaths of the ten people who were shot. The families have welcomed this, but still want an enquiry as inquests will only deal with the immediate cause of death, leaving many other questions unanswered.

[Apjp]

Who believed the story about Aiden McAnespie ? Not even Paisley would have believed that one.
On the other hand we've been told that Adams deliberately held back a unit from going to the defence of beleaguered people on the grounds that it was good for the cause that they took a battering.
And shots fired at troops in busy areas were called "teasers ". I don't know what that means myself.

I do find it hard to believe no IRA battalions were around Derry to respond during the shootings. Where the **** where they when people were being killed is a good question...

[5intheface]

I do find it hard to believe no IRA battalions were around Derry to respond during the shootings. Where the **** where they when people were being killed is a good question...

Well for one, Ballymurphy is in Belfast and for seconds, even if IRA 'Batallions' existed in any normal sense of the word, they would have been poorly trained, under equipped and absolutely no match for a professional regiment, armed to the teeth with endless resources and especially in open confrontation. Hit and run was the only option.

[C. Flower]

It's still a matter of shock to me that I hadn't heard about this until recently.

I can only assume that it was because it was not filmed, in the way that Bloody Sunday was.

[C. Flower]

A comparison here between a massacre of Malaysian villagers with the Ballymurphy massacre.

http://www.organizedrage.com/2012/09...ween-1948.html