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Thread: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digout View Post
    The people that made this mess are still in power.
    And they haven't stopped digging.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    I remember the Central Bank making several gloomy predictions, they were ignored or scoffed at. This is 2006 ish 2007 ish.
    Even that was too late

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digout View Post
    The people that made this mess are still in power.
    Oh great leader the Fianna Failures are quaking in their shoes at your assults...Soon the dictatorship of the intelligent will arrive...
    For to be poised against fatality, to meet adverse conditions gracefully, is more than simple endurance; it is an act of aggression, a positive triumph.
    Thomas Mann

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Cowan live - "Government vindicated by the Report"

    http://www.rte.ie/live/

    I am just seething with rage

    How dare that man, try and spin this and ignore the devastation he, his cronies, higher civil servants and the bankers have caused, and still the majority sit idly by, I just don't understand it.

    Lenihan looked really bad on TV3 there.

    Vincent Browne will have honahan on tonight on extended programme. I truly hope we get some straight talking and some proper info.
    I'm supporting #heyday call for an Irish General election
    (We stil need one, where the majority wake up and vote in people who want to fix the problem, not their own problems)


    Nothing Happens, when WE do Nothing !!!!

    http://www.facebook.com/generalelection
    We need change, any change is a start !!!

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    I can't see this making a difference. A bit of hurly burly in the Dail chambers for the cameras. The Greens will hang on while their agenda of sending us back to the dark ages progresses.

    People will grovel in silent, barstool rants, thats about it. But in midst of all these charades lies real market forces that will soon end this grandiose ponzi scheme for good.
    "When people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fear the people we have liberty."

    Thomas Jefferson.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Joan Burton's response - she wants Cowen to agree the Terms of Reference of the banking commission.

    Both reports stress the ‘home made’ elements of the banking crisis and they dismiss out of hand the ‘Lehman Defence’ so often invoked by Ministers that international factors were primarily to blame for Ireland’s problems. Not so, according to both reports. Mr Regling and Mr Watson suggest that Ireland had experienced a ‘plain vanilla property bubble’. They conclude that there had been scope to mitigate the risks of a boom-bust cycle through prudent policies but the Irish Government had chosen to ‘add fuel to the fire’.
    In particular, the international examiners have highlighted how during his tenure in Finance, he stoked the building boom. He cannot escape the implications of the withering assessment the examiners have delivered of the policies he pursued and their contribution to the perilous state of the nation’s finances at present.
    The Regling-Watson report highlights the role played by Government tax incentives in creating and sustaining the reckless scale of bank lending for property. The Taoiseach has belatedly acknowledged his mistake in allowing these tax measures to remain in place for an extended period when it was clear that they served no economic or social purpose.
    In each of the budget and Finance Bill debates from 2002, I pointed out the folly of these tax shelters and the damage they were doing both to the notion of equity in the tax code and to the overall economy by diverting investment excessively to one sector at the expense of others. As a result, the cost of doing business in Ireland rocketed and we lost out heavily in the export of goods and services. The damage done then still casts a long shadow and will take a long time to repair.
    Brian Cowen claims he has withdrawn these tax reliefs but many remain in operation at an annual cost of €400 million. After this damning indictment by the international examiners it must be a Government priority to accelerate their removal from the tax code as Labour has long demanded.
    Both reports offer a scathing analysis of the failures in banking regulation at critical time and the tolerance shown to banking practices that were blatantly irresponsible. While both the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator are the focus of the criticisms in the reports, there has to be accountability also from Ministers of Finance who presided over and indeed created the lax system that failed so catastrophically. The buck has to stop with Ministers, including Mr Cowen, because they had general responsibility to protect the public interest in the operation of regulatory agencies. Both Mr McCreevy and Mr Cowen manifestly failed in the discharge of their duties to the public. They allowed a situation to develop where building societies, most notoriously Irish Nationwide, broke away from the core functions and acted as lending agents for property gambles.
    A full enquiry will have to examine in detail the events of March 2008 and subsequent decisions in relation to Anglo Irish Bank. In that month, the fragile state of that bank became apparent when its share price plummeted on St Patrick’s Day. This was also the period of the ill fated attempt of the Quinn family to acquire a significant share in the bank through the ‘contracts for difference’ mechanism. Again, it is Mr Cowen who has most to explain about his action or inaction at that critical time.
    On the blanket guarantee of September 2008, Professor Honohan is profoundly critical of the Government decision. In particular the inclusion in the guarantee of outstanding long term bonds and dated subordinated debt. This, he argues, ‘narrowed the eventual resolution options for the failing institutions and increased the State’s potential share of the losses’. In plain terms, the guarantee was too wide and too costly. It is this decision which is now resulting in such a high cost to the Irish taxpayer. He is also critical of the fact that senior managers were left in place after the guarantee was put in place.
    The Honohan report makes clear that other less costly options were possible that night. An exit strategy from that guarantee later this year remains an urgent priority.
    The purpose of the dual reports published today was to establish the framework of a full enquiry into Ireland’s bank collapse. For that enquiry to have any credibility it must have personnel and terms of reference that can command all party support in the Dail and have full public confidence. There are many vested interests who want to hide the truth and escape culpability for their actions. To achieve that consensus, I suggest the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance should meet with the opposition parties to agree on a joint approach to this enquiry. Ministers cannot be judge and jury of their own actions and policies.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    I believe it's some consolation that again posters like ourselves have been told what we already knew.

    One thing that stands out in the Honohan report is the "no bank can fail policy" which this government took which meant circumstances fell into place for no other route to be taken only the one that was followed.

    Hundreds of banks in America were allowed to fail and there was hardly any notice taken.

    It seems like when our government were seemingly inactive in their approach to the crisis the plan had already been put in place they just didn't bother to tell us until the next stroke had to be implimented.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Well it looks as if they have no excuses, Fianna Fail led governments and not Lehman Brothers ruined the country.
    Then by keeping the zombie banks alive and bailing out the developers they have made the situation far far worse.
    sickening... and they'll probably go up in the next poll!

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digout View Post
    Its official, Cowen caused the crash.
    But not according to RTE so he is out of the woods, questioning in the Dail has been banned until the goldfish have forgotten about it. The horses will be calm again soon.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    I believe it's some consolation that again posters like ourselves have been told what we already knew.

    One thing that stands out in the Honohan report is the "no bank can fail policy" which this government took which meant circumstances fell into place for no other route to be taken only the one that was followed.

    Hundreds of banks in America were allowed to fail and there was hardly any notice taken.

    It seems like when our government were seemingly inactive in their approach to the crisis the plan had already been put in place they just didn't bother to tell us until the next stroke had to be implimented.

    I find no consolation at all in that, I was hoping I was a loud mouth moany crank that was wide of the mark, it seems I was being conservative and came late to the game of realising what dog dinner they were making of the country. It is a disgrace for this country that we have not other answer other than to let Cowen see out his office. It is not his disgrace but ours. We literally have no other idea what to do other than to rumble on like a broken train going nowhere.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xray View Post
    But not according to RTE so he is out of the woods, questioning in the Dail has been banned until the goldfish have forgotten about it. The horses will be calm again soon.
    Do you know that RTE is FF pravada spokesman?? They -RTE would do anything for FF even praising them or eliminating negative words coming from the opposition??

    It's time to clear out the directors of RTE board when new government comes in 2012.

    Also to clear out the quangos as well.. another term for 'jobs for the FF boys' and make significant savings of €12BN.
    Last edited by disability student; 09-06-2010 at 07:56 PM.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by tea drinker View Post
    I remember the Central Bank making several gloomy predictions, they were ignored or scoffed at. This is 2006 ish 2007 ish.
    Even that was too late
    Were they the ones that read like " be a bit careful buying houses, but not careful enough not to actually buy one because our population is going to growth by 16% a year for a century so buy one quick?" and "our banks are as sound as a pound and the fundamentals are great"...?
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by disability student View Post
    Do you know that RTE is FF pravada spokesman?? They -RTE would do anything for FF even praising them or eliminating negative words coming from the opposition??

    It's time to clear out the directors of RTE board when new government comes in 2012.

    Also to clear out the quangos as well.. another term for 'jobs for the FF boys'
    I would sell RTE, I would not have believed it but TV3 and Newstalk are fine as public service news broadcasters and not always right wing. RTE has lost its way badly in many ways. It either needs to be a lot smaller and/or privately owned as far as I am concerned. Why am I forced to pay for this ****?
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xray View Post
    I would sell RTE, I would not have believed it but TV3 and Newstalk are fine as public service news broadcasters and not always right wing. RTE has lost its way badly in many ways. It either needs to be a lot smaller and/or privately owned as far as I am concerned. Why am I forced to pay for this ****?
    Well said X ray as you can see them via your x rays lol

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Banking Collapse Reports Out - Regling & Watson and Honohan - Link Here at 4.30 p.m.

    There does have to be a serious purge of management levels at RTE among other places- it would be an ideal time to clear out the corrupt out of the civil service as well. If I was looking for overhead savings without having to pay massive redundancy packages I'd definitely be encouraging a good old root around in the records by the guards- it would be worth funding a unit to do it- and identifying civil servants who may be still in the system or taking large pensions when it could be demonstrated that they had breached confidentiality or interfered with records for religious or party political reasons.

    Excellent time to have a purge of the wicked. Now that in the end might, unlike NAMA, turn a profit.

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