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Thread: The Right to a Fada

  1. #1
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    Default The Right to a Fada





    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/people-have-no-absolute-right-to-fadas-in-names-watchdog-finds-1.3852465



    The Data Protection Commissioner has dismissed the question of whether a person is entitled to have their Irish name correctly spelled by the HSE if it has a fada in it. The reasoning seems utterly spurious as the HSE identifies people by date of birth and ID number, not by name. Mistakes in spellings of names and personal titles are made all the time and they are not reliable as an ID in a computerised system. Of course computerised systems can cope with accents of various kinds - virtually every other European state has no bother with this.

    Parallel issues coming up are that people with Irish names are told they must give an "English translation" and Ms. unilaterally dropped in favour of Mrs.

    This seems to be purely a case of "F you and your fadas, we are in charge and we are determined to be sloppy ". Is there any other explanation ?
    Last edited by C. Flower; 09-04-2019 at 11:46 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    A friend of ours, native Irish speaker, tells the story of when he was enrolling in a course in Trinity College many years ago. They demanded his sir name in English. So he gave it, "Son of the fair haired warrior". What they meant of course was for him to give an Anglicised version, something meaningless but English sounding, and which had nothing at all to do with his name.
    They eventually accepted his real name, I must ask him did he get to keep his Fádas.
    That was a long time ago, I am sure they have a much more enlightened attitude now.

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by eamo View Post
    A friend of ours, native Irish speaker, tells the story of when he was enrolling in a course in Trinity College many years ago. They demanded his sir name in English. So he gave it, "Son of the fair haired warrior". What they meant of course was for him to give an Anglicised version, something meaningless but English sounding, and which had nothing at all to do with his name.
    They eventually accepted his real name, I must ask him did he get to keep his Fádas.
    That was a long time ago, I am sure they have a much more enlightened attitude now.
    Laughed my head off at that. Where I come from, it would be nothing so interesting - more likely "Son of John" "Son of Evan", given that we had a patronymic system until told by the English in the 1830s to get 'proper surnames'.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post




    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/people-have-no-absolute-right-to-fadas-in-names-watchdog-finds-1.3852465



    The Data Protection Commissioner has dismissed the question of whether a person is entitled to have their Irish name correctly spelled by the HSE if it has a fada in it. The reasoning seems utterly spurious as the HSE identifies people by date of birth and ID number, not by name. Mistakes in spellings of names and personal titles are made all the time and they are not reliable as an ID in a computerised system. Of course computerised systems can cope with accents of various kinds - virtually every other European state has no bother with this.

    Parallel issues coming up are that people with Irish names are told they must give an "English translation" and Ms. unilaterally dropped in favour of Mrs.

    This seems to be purely a case of "F you and your fadas, we are in charge and we are determined to be sloppy ". Is there any other explanation ?
    hasnt some people fierce problems all the same????

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by dedogs View Post
    hasnt some people fierce problems all the same????
    Gaeilgoirs are a dreadful bore.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Gaeilgoirs are a dreadful bore.
    Puralist by name but not by nature ??
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Pluralistic enough to see that the proletariat doesn't have the luxury of reviving dead languages. Gaelgoirism is mainly a bourgeois conceit these days. Historically it was associated with the Roman Catholic Church's stranglehold on society and the schools.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Pluralistic enough to see that the proletariat doesn't have the luxury of reviving dead languages. Gaelgoirism is mainly a bourgeois conceit these days. Historically it was associated with the Roman Catholic Church's stranglehold on society and the schools.
    That is so wrong, historically. It was institution of the National School system by the British, across the whole country in the 1840s, that knocked Irish back. These primary schools were English speaking. Within twenty years numbers of Irish speakers as recorded in the Census dropped like a stone. Post famine emigration also took a toll, and parents wanted their children to have good English as it was seen as more useful for emigrants.

    The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland was boosted up by the British who funded Maynooth and handed most of the schools over to RC Priests to run, and who funded with grants the Institutions supposedly built by the religious orders, because they viewed the RC Church (as funded by the British) as a potential force for social stability in the desperately poor and undeveloped Ireland of the 19th Century. Before the famine, the Church was not strong and Irish people only religious in a patchy way.

    The RC Church has run most of the schools in the State for over 150 years. If they had wanted to raise an Irish speaking population they could have. I know one rural National School head teacher, now retired, who brought all of his pupils into full English-Irish bi-liguality much to the bemusement of the schools inspectorate, in an Eastern county of the Republic.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 21-04-2019 at 10:12 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Gaeilgoirs are a dreadful bore.
    like....

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    That is so wrong, historically. It was institution of the National School system by the British, across the whole country in the 1840s, that knocked Irish back. These primary schools were English speaking. Within twenty years numbers of Irish speakers as recorded in the Census dropped like a stone. Post famine emigration also took a toll, and parents wanted their children to have good English as it was seen as more useful for emigrants.

    The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland was boosted up by the British who funded Maynooth and handed most of the schools over to RC Priests to run, and who funded with grants the Institutions supposedly built by the religious orders, because they viewed the RC Church (as funded by the British) as a potential force for social stability in the desperately poor and undeveloped Ireland of the 19th Century. Before the famine, the Church was not strong and Irish people only religious in a patchy way.

    The RC Church has run most of the schools in the State for over 150 years. If they had wanted to raise an Irish speaking population they could have. I know one rural National School head teacher, now retired, who brought all of his pupils into full English-Irish bi-liguality much to the bemusement of the schools inspectorate, in an Eastern county of the Republic.
    150 years ago????? theyre all dead now mate noone gives a ***** about that anymore....

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    If they had wanted to raise an Irish speaking population they could have.
    Are you seriously suggesting they taught Irish badly as a deliberate policy? Oh please, give me a break.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Right to a Fada

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting they taught Irish badly as a deliberate policy? Oh please, give me a break.
    Your assertion that Gaelgorism is mainly associated with the RC Church is based on what exactly ? They have managed an English speaking system - to the extent that people who want their children to have an Irish language education had to break out of the system and establish Gaelscoilleanna, shaking cans to raise funds. Can you name me any RC run Gaelscoil ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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