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Thread: Yellow Vests

  1. #1
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    Default Yellow Vests

    Surprised no one has started a thread yet. Dont quite know where to start on this topic. The French protests are now in their 4th week with at least 125,000 (Official figure given by state AFAIK) (136,000 protestors mentioned in one paper) just this weekend all over France . The extreme right attempt to hijack these protests have apparently failed and the demands have become more left wing . If anything the whole thing has a strong anarchist feel to it (more in a pissed off people taking to streets sense than actual thought out I think)

    Anyhow to kick off some translated commentary by a Yellow Vest supporter . He could be talking about rural Ireland. I have to say I am surprised at his talk of hungry faces. We obviously have not been properly informed of the extent of the crumbling of the not long ago vaunted French welfare state . And Macron had planned a 20 billion cutting, how much has now been implemented ? (and some already during the 'Socialist' government of Holland) https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/franc...sterity-macron

    And in French;
    The old communist paper which also has a video of the mass arrests of students near Paris https://www.humanite.fr/quatrieme-sa...-jaunes-664823
    https://www.humanite.fr/arrestation-...hoquent-664808

    Comparing it to a revolution in this online journal associated with the 'dissident communist' Ensemble coalition within Melenchons populist left France Insoumise . Lots of rumblings http://www.regards.fr/societe/articl...e-en-esperance

    the 'anti-capitalist' coalition NPA talks in a similar vein https://npa2009.org/communique/la-re...ron-doit-ceder with more at it's online paper https://npa2009.org/publications-npa/hebdo-semaine

    And a report from a Guardian like paper (rad left tradition but corporate takeover tamed it) mentions 136,000 protestors and 1723 arrests just this weekend https://www.liberation.fr/france/201...samedi_1696776

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Macron's offer to buy peace will end up moving the French budget deficit above 3%

    Brussels should be as strict with France as they have been with Italy but will they be?


    The promise of more spending and a populist “big-tent” approach will raise eyebrows in other European capitals – especially Rome, which will love Macron’s newfound willingness to bust Brussels-imposed deficit limits. But there’s still a strong chance France will be given the benefit of the doubt by the European Commission and sovereign debt-holders.

    The deficit was due to be close to 3 percent of GDP next year before falling back to below 2 percent; it will probably be about half a percentage point higher now, according to the French press. If that’s the price of protecting Macron’s previous reforms, it’s just about worth it, according to Bank of America-Merrill Lynch economist Gilles Moec.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...premium-europe
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Well, latest Liberation item reports on splits in the Gilets Jaune 'ranks' Not surprising, the middle class around here are ambivalent. They don't like Macron but they see no alternative, apart from Ms Le Pen. She could benefit...

    French politics is in flux, much like almost all politics. The old Left/Right is gone, Macron is no substitute. The 'left' leaning i.e. the old working class brought up to date, such as nurses, some teachers, public sector (non ENA graduates), etc., are unrepresented, except by yellow jacket people, who declare themselves to be non political. The result? a flux, many of whom don't vote, feeling it is a waste of time. The second round that voted in Macron had only a 48% turnout. There is no sign of any solid new alternatives.

    As a result, the pols are satisfied, they prefer a situation where only 'our'supporters vote. Macron is playing to them, appearing to be reasonable, but hoping his types will turn out next time.

    The best part? At least 100,000 get out and protest, even incoherently. We could do with that, pro rata, in Ireland. Are wee too lazy?
    Last edited by barrym; 18-12-2018 at 07:10 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Well, latest Liberation item reports on splits in the Gilets Jaune 'ranks' Not surprising, the middle class around here are ambivalent. They don't like Macron but they see no alternative, apart from Ms Le Pen. She could benefit...

    French politics is in flux, much like almost all politics. The old Left/Right is gone, Macron is no substitute. The 'left' leaning i.e. the old working class brought up to date, such as nurses, some teachers, public sector (non ENA graduates), etc., are unrepresented, except by yellow jacket people, who declare themselves to be non political. The result? a flux, many of whom don't vote, feeling it is a waste of time. The second round that voted in Macron had only a 48% turnout. There is no sign of any solid new alternatives.

    As a result, the pols are satisfied, they prefer a situation where only 'our'supporters vote. Macron is playing to them, appearing to be reasonable, but hoping his types will turn out next time.

    The best part? At least 100,000 get out and protest, even incoherently. We could do with that, pro rata, in Ireland. Are wee too lazy?
    Proportionately as a percentage of population the Irish water protests were much bigger, and in depth, in terms of tight local networks. Housing is going the same way.

    General dissatisfaction, and no solution, is the name of the game. In the UK Corbyn is hoping to ride on the back of this very confused and volatile wave.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Ah jaysus, who is going to fix the water system?? We have to fund it.

    I mean serious about protest, we have thousands without accommodation, McVerry is supplying 1000 beds...., the government, how many? We are spending €16Bn on health, almost a million waiting for an appointment, a decision or a treatment....

    We can turn out thousands for abortion after 50 years of trying, grand.

    Where are the people who want a reasonable society for everyone?? The only ones I can see are those people who march every sunday in cork.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Yes (as ever) it could go in different directions. Anyhow My summary of Act 8 in France (specifically the 8th Saturday of protests/activity)

    -Google does a fair job of translating these days ; 50,000 'yellow-vest' protesters across France on the 8th Saturday running reports the old communist paper (which usually quotes the interior ministry) https://www.humanite.fr/gilets-jaune...astille-665915

    The NPA (as in nearer to the 'real far left' than Melenchon's Insoumise) linked site (which seems to be the most optimistic minded on the left?) reports on a town by town basis , nearly 10,000 in Toulouse alone it claims , 4600 in Bordeaux (the local authority estimate), and other impressive sounding turnouts in smaller cities/towns . There is some worry about LePen's comeback on the site though , see analysis elsewhere there
    http://www.revolutionpermanente.fr/R...des-agitateurs

    The sort of 'Independent left' coalition (some spent time in NPA but mostly of CP origin I think) now in Melenchons Insoumise (populist left, the strategy designed in part to counter the populist extreme right, specifically LePen-ism) worry more (as usual I think) with their initial excitement about the protests receded by looks (see also the online journal regards.fr associated with personalities within ) ; Danger, LePen ! (27% in a recent opinion poll +7% for the neo-Gaullist Dupont in the face of a fragile to collapsing? old 'centre-right' and weakened left neolib around Macron)
    https://www.ensemble-fdg.org/content...e-penque-faire

    And here we have this somewhat head scratcher. Condemned even by the IRSP as a racist but (as usual) not completely stupid (the named self promoter there has vids circulating of himself in action and doing a sort of Farage thing sat in a pub along with a list of unlikely demands at a 'Yellow Vest' protest here) https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...229&__tn__=C-R
    Last edited by GregTimo; 09-01-2019 at 03:43 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Yes, settling down, in French fashion. Today, Macron et al are holding their so-called National Debate including the gilets jaunes 'representatives' but it is not clear who or how they were selected.

    Cynical opinion is that Macron could have initiated the sanctions they announced after last week's troubles, at any time since gilets started. Legislation exists to deal with football hooligans and the like. However, the opinion is that the gov let it rip to discredit the gilets.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    On weekend 9, the numbers have turned around 'Around 84,000 protesters -- up from 50,000 the previous week'. And if public broadcaster France 24 are admitting it that's good enough for me (maybe they're worried about Macron's cuts too at some level? ) https://www.france24.com/en/20190112...9-yellow-vests

    The traditional left outlets are as usual slow over the weekend , however the NPA linked RP has a detailed report and lots of speculation
    http://www.revolutionpermanente.fr/A...-Gilets-Jaunes
    While the journal associated with some of their former colleagues now in Melenchon's France Insoumise has not yet caught up but showing renewed interest http://www.regards.fr/
    The old communist paper should report later https://www.humanite.fr/

    Here a protest in Belfast was dominated by PBP by sounds https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...in-897180.html
    The one in Dublin sounds a predictable mess (I stayed well away from) https://www.thejournal.ie/yellow-ves...37126-Jan2019/
    Last edited by GregTimo; 13-01-2019 at 11:05 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    A more detailed report on the Belfast event (for those who can access it). There is concern (as in Dublin) over right wing attempts to exploit it https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...test-1.3756284

    '... People Before Profit Belfast West MLA Gerry Carroll said people were concerned about the destruction of the NHS, welfare reform and the lack of marriage equality for LGBT couples and women’s reproductive rights. He said in France people had stood up against President Emmanuel Macron “once the darling of the liberal elite” and “so we can take on these issues here”.
    “It sends a powerful message,” he said.
    Mr Carroll believes those on the right wing of politics, who have organised a yellow vest protest in Belfast for next Saturday, must not be allowed to own and exploit the movement.
    “It is important the left is here today,” he said.
    “We are not conceding this ground to the right.” .. '

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    The result, in part, of the 'gilets jaunes' is a set of 'town meetings' where all the different interests are invited. There will be adjudicators present to ensure fairness. They will reports on the process BUT will not summarise them. The 'gov' will do that.

    Interesting, even if the results may be fudged, that Macron feels it necessary to go through the process. Not sure though that much will change as a result. France needs to move on, the old socialist processes cannot survive in a worldwide market.

    There may be some face saving changes in the taxation of the rich, but the future of the 'soft jobs' in the administration are gone.

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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    I thought the forum had died esp as there was some going on gloating on a populist right hangout . Anyhow

    2019/01/19- France: Not that surprisingly not on the front page this week (some higher up trying to bury it?), 84,000 is the Interior ministry estimate for the 10th Saturday (same as the previous week and up on the low point 2 weeks ago) . So there is no end in sight to the movement as yet https://www.france24.com/en/20190119...s-taxes-petrol

    Sadly with our leftish Political World forum dying a sudden death during the week my old thread is lost (hence this). Anyhow the report on the old communist paper https://www.humanite.fr/acte-x-les-g...n-debat-666621

    And the ancient left intellectual LeMondeDiplo (just a historical connection with the main liberal Le Monde AFAIK) finally got around to profiling the movement . And they might be describing themselves ? (Ok interesting enough site though) ;
    ‘… Even if the divisions in Amiens and Detroit are not identical, they show the growing gulf between a working-class universe constantly attacked yet trying to fight back, and a world of contestation inspired by intellectuals whose radicalism on paper is no threat to the social order. The yellow vests remind us of this division, but it’s not up to them alone to bridge it.’ https://mondediplo.com/2019/01/01gilets-jaunes-rise
    Again at the NPA related site looking like fairly comprehensive coverage on a skim (just the editorial, more elsewhere, eg as said at Humanitie, Toulouse turnout alone bigger than Paris) http://www.revolutionpermanente.fr/L...oute-la-France
    Nothing I can find for last weekend on the local variety which fizzled in Dublin the previous weekend (our own version of populist right + fairly whacked out conspiracy theorists had sadly taken over that). Someone did a review on the Journal for what it’s worth https://www.thejournal.ie/yellow-ves...40420-Jan2019/

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Quote Originally Posted by GregTimo View Post
    Nothing I can find for last weekend on the local variety which fizzled in Dublin the previous weekend (our own version of populist right + fairly whacked out conspiracy theorists had sadly taken over that). Someone did a review on the Journal for what it’s worth https://www.thejournal.ie/yellow-ves...40420-Jan2019/
    You've got to be careful with the Journal.ie as a source because it is very much an agenda-driven views site rather than a news site. The truth about what happened with the Irish Yellow Vest thing is probably somewhere in between what was described on PI and the Journal. From looking at the reports, there did seem to be the typical attempt to subvert the protest for political purposes by the hard Left represented by the Antifa/Open Borders protesters but that apparently didn't go down well. With Ireland, the usual Left/Right split in the European fashion doesn't really apply because most people are centrist. Sure there are people on the Left and Right but Irish politics is quite complex in that it is perfectly possible for an Irish voter to support Left and Right policies simultaneously while voting for neither.

    I don't know if Irish people protest quite the same way as the French. With the Water Tax protests, the results for the politicians was far more effective than the way that the French do things. The Irish voters destroyed the political careers of a lot of the pro-Water Tax politicians at the ballot box. (The Irish "Labour" party went from 37 seats in the 2011 election to barely 7 in the 2016 election. The Fine Gael party had its worst seat losses ever and is now effectively part of a minority government supported by Fianna Fail.) This is the kind of thing that scares politicians more than a few street protests -- the idea that their place at the trough will be in danger. The Irish media is almost completely untrustworthy and is, for all intents and purposes, a PR machine for the government. There have already been rumblings from politicians about Social Media because it completely bypasses the lies of the presstitutes. It would be better to watch what happens and is reported on Social Media about the Irish Yellow Vests (if it eventually becomes a widespread movement) than rely on Irish media sites.

    As was proven with the Snowden example, the conspiracy theorists are not necessarily wrong.

    Regards...jmcc

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcc View Post
    You've got to be careful with the Journal.ie as a source because it is very much an agenda-driven views site rather than a news site. The truth about what happened with the Irish Yellow Vest thing is probably somewhere in between what was described on PI and the Journal. From looking at the reports, there did seem to be the typical attempt to subvert the protest for political purposes by the hard Left represented by the Antifa/Open Borders protesters but that apparently didn't go down well. With Ireland, the usual Left/Right split in the European fashion doesn't really apply because most people are centrist. Sure there are people on the Left and Right but Irish politics is quite complex in that it is perfectly possible for an Irish voter to support Left and Right policies simultaneously while voting for neither.

    I don't know if Irish people protest quite the same way as the French. With the Water Tax protests, the results for the politicians was far more effective than the way that the French do things. The Irish voters destroyed the political careers of a lot of the pro-Water Tax politicians at the ballot box. (The Irish "Labour" party went from 37 seats in the 2011 election to barely 7 in the 2016 election. The Fine Gael party had its worst seat losses ever and is now effectively part of a minority government supported by Fianna Fail.) This is the kind of thing that scares politicians more than a few street protests -- the idea that their place at the trough will be in danger. The Irish media is almost completely untrustworthy and is, for all intents and purposes, a PR machine for the government. There have already been rumblings from politicians about Social Media because it completely bypasses the lies of the presstitutes. It would be better to watch what happens and is reported on Social Media about the Irish Yellow Vests (if it eventually becomes a widespread movement) than rely on Irish media sites.

    As was proven with the Snowden example, the conspiracy theorists are not necessarily wrong.

    Regards...jmcc
    It begs the question what is right wing. I refuse to accept that concern about mass immigration, including from countries and cultures which have nothing in common with our values, is exclusively a right wing point of view. Comrade Marx, no less, warned about the price of labour being driven down by mass labour importation.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    It begs the question what is right wing.
    It is hard to say but it traditionally it was more of a law and order/finance line. However, it seems that everyone wants to be Middle Class these days and that line has blurred.

    I refuse to accept that concern about mass immigration, including from countries and cultures which have nothing in common with our values, is exclusively a right wing point of view. Comrade Marx, no less, warned about the price of labour being driven down by mass labour importation.
    There does seem to be one constant in all of this and that's that the poor get screwed. With the advent of welfare for life, it is now the Working Class that is getting screwed too. As that spreads towards the Middle Classes, the idea from scum like Merkel, Drunken Juncker et al that others should pay for their mistakes is going to cause serious problems. I don't think that it is quite at revolution stage yet but the push back from the Yellow Vests in France and what has happened in Italy suggests that Merkel and her supporters are on borrowed time.

    Immigration in Ireland, specifically the mess surrounding the Accession states was intended to generate money for FF/FG/Lab property owners. Social housing had been hobbled by FF/FG/Labour for decades. There's a tipping point yet to be reached with the welfare for life situation and it may be approaching faster than the political classes think. The Yellow Vest and Italian elections are only the first signs.

    Regards...jmcc

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    Default Re: Yellow Vests

    The "red scarfs" counter demonstrators are getting a lot of coverage. The MSM are inflating their numbers while playing down the massive yellow vest demonstration. I was talking to some people just back from Paris who said the yellow vests were everywhere.

    Here is a bitchute video by a guy who really could do with being a lot more succinct....in fact he goes on and on and on and...Well if you skip to about 8 mins he has footage of the prominent yellow vester Jérôme Rodrigues getting shot in the eye by police and the police subsequent behaviour. At 11'40 he has footage of some red scarfs coming across as very smug and affluent establishment and EU supporters and chanting "yellow vests get a job" and saying they need more education, by which I recon they mean indoctrination. Well indeed....aren't the peasants just revolting.

    Here is todays Irish Times puff piece on the "red scarfs": https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...ence-1.3772667

    Colour coded counter-revolution, now where have we seen that before?


    Here is the video:

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/kKoONODPxZw/


    Bit chute videos don't seem to be uploadable like youtube vids.

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