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Thread: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Having spent decades on these types of debates, I could only roll my eyes and sigh at this childish bolloxology....again

    This is a favoured old tactic of raving partitionists who insist on seeing the Six as somewhere as foreign, alien and far away as Mongolia; and those very strange people whose real agenda is to somehow get all of Ireland back in the UK. Both groups amount to maybe 15% of the population (personal estimate based on 4 decades living in 4 different counties in three different provinces) but they make a hell of a lot of noise.

    Basically the Count will sit here quite happily from now till the sun goes out, endlessly whining and quibbling and demanding absolute satisfaction on questions that have no definitive 100% answer - by definition! It is of course completely and utterly ridiculous to demand "I want to know exactly what GDP and unemployment levels will be in 2035! I demand to know the precise exact details of how exactly (say) cancer services are going to be integrated across the island! I insist you tell me exactly how [insert some obscure legal issue in one obscure industry] is going to look like post-Unification! And if you can't answer those, I have dozens of others!"

    Followed, naturally, with Standard Disclaimers such as "I have no objection to/I would like to see a UI BUT [insert feeble excuse here]"

    It's a rather pathetic stalling/distraction/disruption tactic, used by small and petty minds. Its only purpose is to bog down any reasonable and sensible debate, spread FUD, and attempt to scare the weak-minded with pedantic mean-spirited objectionism.

    Seen it a thousand times before. Don't take it seriously. At the end of the day you could offer the Count ten million eurons and his own tropical island, and he'd still find ways to complain, whinge and bogeymonster about the utter disaster that would be a United Ireland.

    Why a tiny minority of people are compelled to behave this way remains a mystery. I suspect perhaps they simply didn't get enough hugs as childer.
    Exactly, it's all finicky nonsense conjured up by myopic micro-managing types who always miss the bigger picture.

    The recent Dail report, compiled by a German economist on behalf of a cross-party committee(not all of whom are pro-UI) debunked the North's 'deficit myth'. Most of that expenditure will simply no longer be needed, and they will have a practically balanced budget.

    This is from the same OP who admittedly hates all Nordies though so no new posters should be surprised at his myopic arguments. They're from someone motivated by a desire never to re-integrate the North out of pure hatred for the North's inhabitants, rather than from some skeptic objective accounting type. Anyways all of these people always refuse to acknowledge this deficit largely goes on things the North would no longer have to pay for after re-unification. The above nonsense over a few million here and there misses the point. The chap's a lost cause and he's proud to be partitionist as well, despite the economic idiocy of partition.

    Count you should stick to your spamming thread. This is just trolling.

    Economies are not just determined by public expenditure anyways. Count and his partitionist mates know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Get bogged down into counting peanuts with them at your peril. You may as well argue economic theory with an auctioneer or a small town accountant.
    Last edited by Apjp; 19-09-2018 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    This is a complete misunderstanding of history. The Free Presbyterian church was an invention of the Paisleyites.

    Ordinary mainstream (i.e., non-Paisleyite) Presbyterians are just a branch of mostly non-fundamentalist Christianity.

    I lived next door to a family of them growing up in suburban Dublin. Just ordinary folk and not at all bigoted or fundamentalist. I don't think any of them even had any particular links to the North. If they did, it certainly wasn't with Paisley's crowd.

    I do not always agree with Sidewinder's choice of words, but he is basically correct on this issue. You haven't lived in Ireland for decades, which is fine, but your understanding of the issues is completely outdated.
    Plus 100. Count will be convinced this is an APJP-Sidewinder conspiracy to undermine his credibility on this serious matter. Tbh a great many Protestants are probably far less fundamentalist than he himself is on the issue.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Exactly, it's all finicky nonsense conjured up by myopic micro-managing types who always miss the bigger picture.

    The recent Dail report, compiled by a German economist on behalf of a cross-party committee(not all of whom are pro-UI) debunked the North's 'deficit myth'. Most of that expenditure will simply no longer be needed, and they will have a practically balanced budget.

    This is from the same OP who admittedly hates all Nordies though so no new posters should be surprised at his myopic arguments. They're from someone motivated by a desire never to re-integrate the North out of pure hatred for the North's inhabitants, rather than from some skeptic objective accounting type. Anyways all of these people always refuse to acknowledge this deficit largely goes on things the North would no longer have to pay for after re-unification. The above nonsense over a few million here and there misses the point. The chap's a lost cause and he's proud to be partitionist as well, despite the economic idiocy of partition.

    Count you should stick to your spamming thread. This is just trolling.

    Economies are not just determined by public expenditure anyways. Count and his partitionist mates know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Get bogged down into counting peanuts with them at your peril. You may as well argue economic theory with an auctioneer or a small town accountant.
    Very tangible indeed........
    Dontcha just love the way this topic gets up the noses of the UIers? Their fear of being exposed as a fragile house of cards is palpable.......
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Plus 100. Count will be convinced this is an APJP-Sidewinder conspiracy to undermine his credibility on this serious matter. Tbh a great many Protestants are probably far less fundamentalist than he himself is on the issue.
    You wish!
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    I have to respectfully disagree. I suspect there are many reasonable people in the ROI who would have reservations about a UI - I'm one of them.

    I believe we have a more than sufficient number of headbangers in the ROI already - without importing the poisonous extremes (BOTH sides) from NI. I'm not unduly concerned about the potential financial cost - just the sectarian goons.

    I imagine that this will be an unpopular view - and of course I realise that the vast majority of those of both persuasions in NI are decent people who would be welcome. They are not the problem.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    I believe we have a more than sufficient number of headbangers in the ROI already - without importing the poisonous extremes (BOTH sides) from NI. I'm not unduly concerned about the potential financial cost - just the sectarian goons.
    But we're not going to be 'importing' them. Most of them, at least from the loyalist side, will stay up north, as is their preference. Who knows, some who chose to venture down south might find that we're not the rosary bead rattling phantoms that they've been brought up to believe we are.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    But we're not going to be 'importing' them. Most of them, at least from the loyalist side, will stay up north, as is their preference. Who knows, some who chose to venture down south might find that we're not the rosary bead rattling phantoms that they've been brought up to believe we are.
    I accept that - but the Gardai (or the 'Police Service of Ireland') will still have to deal with them. Which probably means being armed - which is anathema (to me anyway).

    If I'm in a minority I will live with the outcome and welcome the vast majority of decent folk.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree. I suspect there are many reasonable people in the ROI who would have reservations about a UI - I'm one of them.

    I believe we have a more than sufficient number of headbangers in the ROI already - without importing the poisonous extremes (BOTH sides) from NI. I'm not unduly concerned about the potential financial cost - just the sectarian goons.

    I imagine that this will be an unpopular view - and of course I realise that the vast majority of those of both persuasions in NI are decent people who would be welcome. They are not the problem.
    The morning after Unification the graffiti in Crossmaglen will have changed to "Dubs OUT!"

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    I accept that - but the Gardai (or the 'Police Service of Ireland') will still have to deal with them. Which probably means being armed - which is anathema (to me anyway).

    If I'm in a minority I will live with the outcome and welcome the vast majority of decent folk.
    The PSNI are currently mostly armed. I take your point that many would not want to see a potential all Ireland police force routinely carrying arms, but basically I'm with Sidewinder on his view that the threat of a large scale return to violence by loyalism is completely exaggerated. We are not in 1974 or even 1994.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    As Ryle Dwyer had it:

    From the nationalists that he met in the North, however, Lemass concluded that

    "for them the day partition ended would be the day they would get their foot on the throat of the Orangeman across the road".

    For all too many of the northern nationalists the aim has not been civil rights, but revenge.
    The issue isn't Unification in itself - it is separatism from the rest of the British Isles.

    The Gaelic Catholic validation is dead and gone.

    De Valera said in his 1935 St Patrick Day address

    “Since the coming of St. Patrick 1500 years ago Ireland has been a Christian and a Catholic nation . . . she remains a Catholic nation”.

    In 1948 Costello, having displaced De Valera in government, wrote to the new pope:
    “on the occasion of our assumption of office……my colleagues and myself desire to repose at the feet of your holiness the assurance of our filial loyalty and our devotion to your August person”

    After the Mother and Child bill Costello as Taoiseach said - in a speech supposedly written by McQuaid - “As a Catholic, I obey my Church authorities, and will continue to do so,”

    In the 21st century Bunreacht with "In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred" just looks ridiculous.

    Faith and Fatherland belongs in the dustbin of history, apart from a few lunatics like Gerry MCGeough

    Ireland belongs in the Bonny Bunch of Roses. Culturally and economically. The Idea that Ireland (Exceptionalism?) should pretend the rest of the archipelago is alien is as daft as the notion that Kyushu should split off from Japan.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by maggot View Post
    As Ryle Dwyer had it:



    The issue isn't Unification in itself - it is separatism from the rest of the British Isles.

    The Gaelic Catholic validation is dead and gone.

    De Valera said in his 1935 St Patrick Day address

    “Since the coming of St. Patrick 1500 years ago Ireland has been a Christian and a Catholic nation . . . she remains a Catholic nation”.

    In 1948 Costello, having displaced De Valera in government, wrote to the new pope:
    “on the occasion of our assumption of office……my colleagues and myself desire to repose at the feet of your holiness the assurance of our filial loyalty and our devotion to your August person”

    After the Mother and Child bill Costello as Taoiseach said - in a speech supposedly written by McQuaid - “As a Catholic, I obey my Church authorities, and will continue to do so,”

    In the 21st century Bunreacht with "In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred" just looks ridiculous.

    Faith and Fatherland belongs in the dustbin of history, apart from a few lunatics like Gerry MCGeough

    Ireland belongs in the Bonny Bunch of Roses. Culturally and economically. The Idea that Ireland (Exceptionalism?) should pretend the rest of the archipelago is alien is as daft as the notion that Kyushu should split off from Japan.
    Ok, so basically you're a "Reform Group" type revivalist (*)

    Nobody has said that Britain is 'alien'. If you are going to argue in favour of Ireland then why not argue in favour of a union of North West Europe for example? We have plenty in common with the Icelandics and the Danes also, yes?

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Group_(Ireland)

    If you're going to criticise Bunreacht you might also want to recall that the (unelected) British head of state is also the titular head of the Church of England. That's in her oath.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by maggot View Post
    As Ryle Dwyer had it:



    The issue isn't Unification in itself - it is separatism from the rest of the British Isles.

    The Gaelic Catholic validation is dead and gone.

    De Valera said in his 1935 St Patrick Day address

    “Since the coming of St. Patrick 1500 years ago Ireland has been a Christian and a Catholic nation . . . she remains a Catholic nation”.

    In 1948 Costello, having displaced De Valera in government, wrote to the new pope:
    “on the occasion of our assumption of office……my colleagues and myself desire to repose at the feet of your holiness the assurance of our filial loyalty and our devotion to your August person”

    After the Mother and Child bill Costello as Taoiseach said - in a speech supposedly written by McQuaid - “As a Catholic, I obey my Church authorities, and will continue to do so,”

    In the 21st century Bunreacht with "In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred" just looks ridiculous.

    Faith and Fatherland belongs in the dustbin of history, apart from a few lunatics like Gerry MCGeough

    Ireland belongs in the Bonny Bunch of Roses. Culturally and economically. The Idea that Ireland (Exceptionalism?) should pretend the rest of the archipelago is alien is as daft as the notion that Kyushu should split off from Japan.
    Now now maggot. You know well that most in the south have moved on from those ideas and the RC church is now on life support.


    We would be quite happy to welcome your lot (provided you renounce King Billy)

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    Now now maggot. You know well that most in the south have moved on from those ideas and the RC church is now on life support.


    We would be quite happy to welcome your lot (provided you renounce King Billy)
    Indeed, the special position of the RCC was dropped by referendum as far back as 1972. And then of course the recent referendums on gay marriage and abortion.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Ok, so basically you're a "Reform Group" type revivalist (*)

    Nobody has said that Britain is 'alien'. If you are going to argue in favour of Ireland then why not argue in favour of a union of North West Europe for example? We have plenty in common with the Icelandics and the Danes also, yes?

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Group_(Ireland)

    If you're going to criticise Bunreacht you might also want to recall that the (unelected) British head of state is also the titular head of the Church of England. That's in her oath.

    We are part of a natural archipelago.

    I'm a Northern Unionist.

    The Church of England is irrelevant outside of England, and even in England has nothing like the power still wielded by the Irish RCC in the 26 in schools and hospitals.

    As religion and gaeldom are irrelevant in the 21st century, why should the 32 counties be separate from the rest of the British Isles?

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    Now now maggot. You know well that most in the south have moved on from those ideas and the RC church is now on life support.
    That is my point - as Catholicism (and Gaeldom) were the main reasons for espousing separatism why cling to the antiquated rationales for Independence and Separatism?

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