Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 132

Thread: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,689

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by maggot View Post
    Gerry Adams did you no favours by semi-re-locating to the ROI. The thought of maybe another hundred thousand like him makes sure that there will be no UI in the near future. Like it or not - Nordies ARE different. Always have been going back into the mists of time - Black Pig Dyke etc. Even Michael Collins recognised the difference :



    Carson The Man Who Divided Ireland by Geoffrey Lewis, page 15
    Indeed, Presbyterians of the Scottish variety, by far the largest Protestant congregation in N.I. are credited as the founding fathers of fundamentalism. Why RoI would want to have anything to do with them is beyond me.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    2,073

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Them's great benefits alright, but unfortunately adjectives have little tangible value. Attacking me and the topic in an attempt to shut down discussion simply relegates you to the status of a book burner.
    G'wayouttathat.

    Shut down discussion? This isn't a serious discussion and you know it. You are coming at this topic from a 100% fundamentalist position of being absolutely opposed to a UI under any and all circumstances whatsoever. It's blatantly obvious to anyone with a reading age over 3 years old. You've spent years on here coming out with borderline racist statements about Nordies.

    Now, there are people with perfectly normal queries and concerns. These are people who want to be reassured that the powers that be actually have a plan, have thought things through, have considered the consequences and various projects that need to be undertaken, and that things will generally in the long run be fine. Senator Mark Daly's Oireachtas Committee have made a decent start to that process of developing papers and investigations into various aspects. There's still a hell of a lot to do but it's a good start on mapping out the mechanics of a UI, after decades of vacuous waffle.

    But you? You aren't interested in a discussion. You will always be opposed and will always find reasons to complain. Just admit it instead of trying to play the cute hoor. It's tiresome.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Derry
    Posts
    2,073

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by maggot View Post
    Gerry Adams did you no favours by semi-re-locating to the ROI. The thought of maybe another hundred thousand like him makes sure that there will be no UI in the near future. Like it or not - Nordies ARE different. Always have been going back into the mists of time - Black Pig Dyke etc. Even Michael Collins recognised the difference :
    Like I said. In my 40 years in Ireland I grew up on the Derry/Donegal border. We spent our summer holidays with family in Kerry. I went to UCD. I lived many years in Dublin and Galway.

    In all those decades I only ever came across a tiny minuscule minority of people who considered me anything other than Irish.

    Because most normal people have friends and family and business interests all over the island. Almost all sports are organised on an all-island basis. Rugby and GAA fans have been socialising together for many decades - in the case of rugby even in the darkest days of the worst of the troubles in the 70s Ulster rugby teams, players and fans (who were mostly Protestants, back then) freely traveled, played and drank all over the island together. Colleges in the south are full of Nordies, and colleges in the North are full of southerners. People from all sides work in companies together all over the island every single day. Tens of thousands of people cross the norder from one side to the other for work every single day. People socialise with people from the other side of the border every single day, in every town of any size in the land.

    I'll be pretty blunt (as is my wont) : if you are someone who has never met an actual real live Nordie then you have led a rather odd, and very sheltered life. If you know real live Nordies and still insist on seeing them as a bizarre scary alien species, then you have issues.

    Tis that simple.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,982

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Indeed, Presbyterians of the Scottish variety, by far the largest Protestant congregation in N.I. are credited as the founding fathers of fundamentalism. Why RoI would want to have anything to do with them is beyond me.
    This is a complete misunderstanding of history. The Free Presbyterian church was an invention of the Paisleyites.

    Ordinary mainstream (i.e., non-Paisleyite) Presbyterians are just a branch of mostly non-fundamentalist Christianity.

    I lived next door to a family of them growing up in suburban Dublin. Just ordinary folk and not at all bigoted or fundamentalist. I don't think any of them even had any particular links to the North. If they did, it certainly wasn't with Paisley's crowd.

    I do not always agree with Sidewinder's choice of words, but he is basically correct on this issue. You haven't lived in Ireland for decades, which is fine, but your understanding of the issues is completely outdated.
    Last edited by pluralist; 19-09-2018 at 03:20 AM.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,689

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    G'wayouttathat.

    Shut down discussion? This isn't a serious discussion and you know it. You are coming at this topic from a 100% fundamentalist position of being absolutely opposed to a UI under any and all circumstances whatsoever. It's blatantly obvious to anyone with a reading age over 3 years old. You've spent years on here coming out with borderline racist statements about Nordies.

    Now, there are people with perfectly normal queries and concerns. These are people who want to be reassured that the powers that be actually have a plan, have thought things through, have considered the consequences and various projects that need to be undertaken, and that things will generally in the long run be fine. Senator Mark Daly's Oireachtas Committee have made a decent start to that process of developing papers and investigations into various aspects. There's still a hell of a lot to do but it's a good start on mapping out the mechanics of a UI, after decades of vacuous waffle.

    But you? You aren't interested in a discussion. You will always be opposed and will always find reasons to complain. Just admit it instead of trying to play the cute hoor. It's tiresome.
    If you don't consider this a serious discussion why are you participating? To disrupt?


    In the Brexit thread I summarized the opening grafs of the Mark Daly report as: "unless other people give us money"......
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,689

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    This is a complete misunderstanding of history. The Free Presbyterian church was an invention of the Paisleyites.

    Ordinary mainstream (i.e., non-Paisleyite) Presbyterians are just a branch of mostly non-fundamentalist Christianity.

    I lived next door to a family of them growing up in suburban Dublin. Just ordinary folk and not at all bigoted or fundamentalist. I don't think any of them even had any particular links to the North. If they did, it certainly wasn't with Paisley's crowd.

    I do not always agree with Sidewinder's choice of words, but he is basically correct on this issue. You haven't lived in Ireland for decades, which is fine, but your understanding of the issues is completely outdated.

    How the Scots-Irish Invented Fundamentalism | The Sword of the Lord

    https://swordofthelordbook.com › Blogs › Andrew's blog




    Summary: The Scots-Irish migration to America in the 1700s helped prepare the ... centuryfundamentalism germinated: the Presbyterianism of the Scots-Irish ...



    Presbyterianism - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterianism




    Presbyterianism is a part of the reformed tradition within Protestantism which traces its origins ... ThePresbyterian denominations in Scotland hold to the Reformed theology of John Calvin and his immediate ..... The Fundamentalist Presbyterian church in Brazil was influenced by Karl McIntire and the Bible Presbyterian ...Presbyterian polity · ‎Presbyterian Church · ‎Church of Scotland
    You visited this page on 9/18/18.




    Scottish religion in the seventeenth century - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotti...teenth_century




    Scottish religion in the seventeenth century includes all forms of religious organisation and belief in the Kingdom of Scotland in the seventeenth century. The Protestant Reformation in Scotland created a national Church of Scotland or kirk predominantly Calvinist in doctrine and Presbyterian in .... 'Protestors' were largely former Kirk Party fundamentalists or ...




    Fundamentalism in Scotland - Oxford Scholarship

    www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/.../acprof-9780199664832-chapter-15




    Fundamentalism in Scotland was always confined to a small minority within denominational life, found mainly in the Free Presbyterian Church from 1893 and the ...



    How the Scots-Irish Invented Fundamentalism - Democratic Underground

    https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10022352755




    19 posts - ‎18 authors
    http://andrewhimes.net/content/how-scots-irish-invented-fundamentalism .... This where the very, southern and conservative Presbyterian Church in America ...



    The Presbyterian Beginnings of Fundamentalism | Presbyterian ...

    https://www.history.pcusa.org/blog/2...fundamentalism




    Apr 13, 2015 - Note: The following blog post is the first of three that will run this year onFundamentalism and Presbyterians. The second, on the Scopes ...



    Islands of unbending fundamentalism - The Scotsman

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/island...alism-1-587462




    Dec 1, 2001 - THE Free Presbyterian Church in Stornoway is a low slung single storey ... National Mod,Scotland's annual celebration of the Gaelic language.



    Fundamentalism in the Presbyterian Church - Jstor

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/1195420
    by RH Nichols - ‎1925 - ‎Cited by 6 - ‎Related articles
    The roots of fundamentalism lie in two broad facts of Ame ... of Presbyterian fundamentalism ought to begin. .... ing Scottish authors, more than a quarter of the.



    Why is Presbyterian Church in Ireland marching into the dark?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/.../why-i...ching-into-th...




    Aug 11, 2018 - Presbyterians are dominated by male conservatives hung up on homosexuality. ... than its own far more relaxed, progressive mother church in Scotland. ... into this cold, ugly form of exclusionary fundamentalism, so defiantly ...



    Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism in the United Kingdom During the ...

    https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0199664838
    David W. Bebbington, ‎David Ceri Jones - 2013 - ‎History
    On the other hand, James Sinclair, a Free Presbyterian minister, remarked that ... THE INTER-WAR ERA In Scotland no fundamentalist controversy followed the ...











    [BOOK] Furta sacra

    PJ Geary - 1990 - cambridge.org
    … We learn of the Scottish Presbyterian sacramental tradition, of the pervasive revivalism in … Bell
    Riley did as much as anyone to shape classic fundamentalism and this is … The Presbyterian
    Controversy Fundamentalists, Modernists, and Moderates BRADLEY J. LONGFIELD, Duke …

    Cited by 75 Related articles All 2 versions


    [BOOK] The Presbyterian controversy: Fundamentalists, modernists, and moderates

    BJ Longfield - 1993 - books.google.com
    … to the growth of liberal theology and the resultant reaction of fundamentalism, chose to … in his
    adoption of the Princeton Theology and its philosophical foundation of Scottish Com- mon … a leader
    of the militant conservatives or fundamen- talists in the Presbyterian conflict, though …

    Cited by 115 Related articles All 2 versions


    [PDF] chalmers.se


    [BOOK] The Scottish Enlightenment: The Scots' invention of the modern world

    A Herman, J Bishop - 2002 - math.chalmers.se
    … on there would be Burns and the aptly named Walter Scott, who formed the romantic Scottish
    identity very … Scotland is seen as a romantic country at the edge of the civilized world … However,
    the English of the Scots, had its distinctive character, as all dialects do, and was seen as …

    Cited by 232 Related articles All 2 versions








    BB Warfield (1851-1921): a biblical inerrantist as evolutionist


    DN Livingstone, MA Noll - Isis, 2000 - journals.uchicago.edu
    … Hodge and Warfield published in the April 1881 issue of the Presbyterian Review was … Press,
    1993); and Christopher J. Berry, Social Theory of the Scottish Enlightenment (Edinburgh … 1983);
    and Richard Allen Riesen, Criticism and Faith in Late Victorian Scotland: AB Davidson …

    Cited by 31 Related articles All 4 versions


    Biblical Authority and the Impact of Higher Criticism in Irish Presbyterianism, ca. 1850–19301

    AR Holmes - Church History, 2006 - cambridge.org
    … Led by the greatest Scottish churchman of his age, Thomas Chalmers, the Free
    Church was formed in 1843 after seceding from the established Presbyterian Church
    of Scotland over the understanding of church-state relations …

    Cited by 15 Related articles All 5 versions


    Law, social change, and religious toleration

    S Bruce, C Wright - J. Church & St., 1995 - HeinOnline
    … after 1643, the English parliament committed the English church to "a rigid, Scots-style
    Presbyterian … of Wales and the Church of Ireland or the desire to recruit Catholic Scottish
    highlanders into … The old system of publicly funding the state churches of Scotland and England …

    Cited by 21 Related articles All 4 versions


    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Indeed, Presbyterians of the Scottish variety, by far the largest Protestant congregation in N.I. are credited as the founding fathers of fundamentalism. Why RoI would want to have anything to do with them is beyond me.
    Go back before the reformation. Way back. Ireland was partitioned by Black Pig Dyke possibly dating back to 400 BCE

    The notion that Ireland is and was in any way a homogeneous entity because it is mainly one land mass is as stupid as claiming that the Land Mass to the East must only one entity despite the existence of the History of England, Scotland and Wales.

    It's a feature of nationalism to ignore reality. That was why Collins was unusual in his honesty.

    Perhaps the kind and extent of education available to Irish catholics had something to do with it. Education typically emphasised memorisation rather than debate, and debate in Ireland frequently resembled rhetorical warfare rather than a reasoned ex-change of views; a strong element of rant is noticeable in the political literature of the period. Frank O'Connor commented subsequently on the style of thought of the young men who became the leaders of the people. Collins, he considered, had like nearly all his colleagues 'no power of abstract thought' and what most of the others had was 'emotion disguising itself as abstract thought'. He believed this was a general cultural characteristic of the generation: 'when an Irishman talks of "principle" he is a menace to everybody, because he has been brought up in an atmosphere in which the free play of thought is not encouraged'.42
    Page 76

    Priests and Patriots: Irish Separatism and Fear of the Modern, 1890-1914
    Tom Garvin Irish Historical Studies, Vol. 25, No. 97 (May, 1986), pp. 67-81

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Like I said. In my 40 years in Ireland I grew up on the Derry/Donegal border. We spent our summer holidays with family in Kerry. I went to UCD. I lived many years in Dublin and Galway.
    Must be an invisible post - I don't see anything on this thread like that from you ... It depends on which side of the Londonderry/Donegal Border you grew up ...

    Irish people are polite, If you grew up in the UK part of Ireland, especially if you are in any way pleasant, they'll nod and agree with you. Nonetheless some, possibly a fair few, will still regard you as a black Nordie.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by maggot View Post
    But I'm not a cynic
    I still doubt that either you or I will see a United Ireland in our lifetimes.
    “Me, poor man, my library
    Was dukedom large enough.”

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    The fence, the capital, the other bits and occasionally the foreign bits
    Posts
    211

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by statsman1 View Post
    I still doubt that either you or I will see a United Ireland in our lifetimes.
    C'mon lads, yez aren't that old.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    I'm sure yer man Trainwreck, the liberal economic genius of p.ie who leans toward the Austrian School, could give the Count a lesson on tariff and border free trade and how beneficial they are to the economy.
    Last edited by Gerd Muller; 19-09-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    “philosophy lives from everything which happens to the philosopher and his times.”

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by hollandia View Post
    C'mon lads, yez aren't that old.
    Wanna bet?
    “Me, poor man, my library
    Was dukedom large enough.”

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by statsman1 View Post
    Wanna bet?
    You have been seen balancing an eel on the end of your nose!

    http://www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poem...ather-william/

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Indeed, Presbyterians of the Scottish variety, by far the largest Protestant congregation in N.I. are credited as the founding fathers of fundamentalism. Why RoI would want to have anything to do with them is beyond me.
    William Drennan -

    “the Catholics may save themselves, but it is the Protestants must save the nation”

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,689

    Default Re: Specific Tangible Benefits to RoI of a UI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerd Muller View Post
    I'm sure yer man Trainwreck, the liberal economic genius of p.ie who leans toward the Austrian School, could give the Count a lesson on tariff and border free trade and how beneficial they are to the economy.
    He may very well could, but it probably wouldn't do much good, it's not an economic problem, it's a cultural and math problem. The numbers don't compute, and is he a UIer?

    I see today that Cliff Taylor in the IT has a story (behind the paywall) on the same topic as this thread. It's headlined:

    United Ireland after Brexit: do the sums add up?

    Not for the first time..........
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us