Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25

Thread: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,738

    Default Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0913/99...opment_agency/

    Well, if they want to privatise water, it only follows that they want to privatise public land too.

    The FG Government has put the new Land Development Agency under the charge of an old NAMA hack.

    The CIF is rubbing its collective hands.

    More than 60% of public land deemed suited for housing is to be passed over to the private sector.

    As the State does not in fact own large tracts of zoned housing lands, expect to see some very controversial carve ups of amenity and other non-housing land.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,460

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Unlike you, always looking for a negative, I think this is great news.
    Didn't see anything in that report to support your claim that more than 60% of public land would be handed to the private sector.
    But in any event It's no big deal, if successive governments have for years failed to use the land in the face of the mounting housing crisis, SgD's policy is use it or lose it.
    When was zoning ever a concern in Ireland? Changing zoning to accommodate housing shouldn't be a problem.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,460

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    The gubmint might want to get on the blower to Jeff.....


    Amazon founder Jeff Bezos has committed $2 billion to give to charities that support homeless people and to build new preschools in low-income areas. Go deeper.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,738

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Unlike you, always looking for a negative, I think this is great news.
    Didn't see anything in that report to support your claim that more than 60% of public land would be handed to the private sector.

    In fact it would be a lot more.

    There will be a requirement that 40% of homes built on State lands are social and affordable ones.


    There is no guarantee that any significant amount of those would be social housing. 'Affordable' is private/ developer led. Social and affordable would use less land per dwelling than private/non affordable which would have bigger sites and higher spec. Likely it would be more like 90% private, based on that.


    But in any event It's no big deal, if successive governments have for years failed to use the land in the face of the mounting housing crisis, SgD's policy is use it or lose it.
    What land have they 'failed to use' ? Most of State land is rural national park land, forestry, environmental reserves etc. It is entirely unsuited to house building. The State does not have a massive stock of housing land. What there is should be reserved for housing for those who can't afford a market price house.
    When was zoning ever a concern in Ireland? Changing zoning to accommodate housing shouldn't be a problem.
    See above. You can zone a bog in the middle of Mayo, but you can't make it fit to build. You could rezone Dublin Castle, but there would be likely to be some opposition to knocking it and building apartment blocks.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,460

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    [QUOTE=C. Flower;472283]
    In fact it would be a lot more.
    [/FONT]


    There is no guarantee that any significant amount of those would be social housing. 'Affordable' is private/ developer led. Social and affordable would use less land per dwelling than private/non affordable which would have bigger sites and higher spec. Likely it would be more like 90% private, based on that.




    What land have they 'failed to use' ? Most of State land is rural national park land, forestry, environmental reserves etc. It is entirely unsuited to house building. The State does not have a massive stock of housing land. What there is should be reserved for housing for those who can't afford a market price house.

    See above. You can zone a bog in the middle of Mayo, but you can't make it fit to build. You could rezone Dublin Castle, but there would be likely to be some opposition to knocking it and building apartment blocks.
    Saying that 40% of units be reserved for social housing, does not equate to 60% of state land passing to the private sector. While the two are not mutually exclusive, neither are they directly correlated. Lots of room for overlap like a Venn diagram.
    The gubmint has failed to use the land you say it is now going to pass to the private sector. Why haven't they built on it? Oh wait!.......money.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Baile Átha Cliath
    Posts
    5,077

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    'Affordable' seems to have been defined by the minister as 320k. Affordable to posh boys pals, not ordinary people.

    Just to pick up on one of Count's points, public land utilised as public parks, pitches, nature reserves and other amenities is land being used. It is not comparable whatsoever to hoarders and speculators sitting on empty properties.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    8,460

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    'Affordable' seems to have been defined by the minister as 320k. Affordable to posh boys pals, not ordinary people.

    Just to pick up on one of Count's points, public land utilised as public parks, pitches, nature reserves and other amenities is land being used. It is not comparable whatsoever to hoarders and speculators sitting on empty properties.
    But is all public land being so used? I kinda doubt it.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Baile Átha Cliath
    Posts
    5,077

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    But is all public land being so used? I kinda doubt it.
    If there is some suitable land the state should retain ownership and build social housing upon it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    It is lazy tin-foil hat 'thinking' to suggest that this is a device to suit developers.

    Until recent legislative changes - brought in by FG (I strongly dislike FG, but fair is fair) many developers had no interest in building houses - way too risky in terms of cost benefit.


    I posted elsewhere about someone I know who inherited zoned land in Dublin that would accommodate 300+ residential units. No site cost and yet there was no way he could make the site pay with residential development - right now, September 2018. Costs and taxes are just too high and he cannot afford the risk.


    Yet another house builder is in trouble today http://www.thejournal.ie/mdy-constru...36887-Sep2018/



    .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DublinBayS
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    It is lazy tin-foil hat 'thinking' to suggest that this is a device to suit developers.

    Until recent legislative changes - brought in by FG (I strongly dislike FG, but fair is fair) many developers had no interest in building houses - way too risky in terms of cost benefit.


    I posted elsewhere about someone I know who inherited zoned land in Dublin that would accommodate 300+ residential units. No site cost and yet there was no way he could make the site pay with residential development - right now, September 2018. Costs and taxes are just too high and he cannot afford the risk.


    Yet another house builder is in trouble today http://www.thejournal.ie/mdy-constru...36887-Sep2018/



    .
    Not something you really want to read when a housing crisis is in full swing.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bates View Post
    Not something you really want to read when a housing crisis is in full swing.
    Sad but true.

    The planning application fee alone can run to €80k for a big scheme. That's just the fee to An Bord Pleanala. DCC Development Contributions add €86 per square metre (plus another €2k per house if close to the Luas cross city).

    Etc.
    Last edited by Publicrealm; 14-09-2018 at 09:44 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,945

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    It is lazy tin-foil hat 'thinking' to suggest that this is a device to suit developers.

    Until recent legislative changes - brought in by FG (I strongly dislike FG, but fair is fair) many developers had no interest in building houses - way too risky in terms of cost benefit.


    I posted elsewhere about someone I know who inherited zoned land in Dublin that would accommodate 300+ residential units. No site cost and yet there was no way he could make the site pay with residential development - right now, September 2018. Costs and taxes are just too high and he cannot afford the risk.


    Yet another house builder is in trouble today http://www.thejournal.ie/mdy-constru...36887-Sep2018/


    It all goes back to the landbanks.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,941

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    I agree with (only) one thing the Count has said....."When was zoning ever a concern in Ireland?"

    Quite, we have had various "spatial strategies" and of course we have that hoary old chestnut, the county development plans. However, we still have the prospect hanging over us of the constitutional issue, used by successive governments to avoid having any form of realistic planning.

    Without a methodology of deciding what to do with land, definitively, we are subject to vested interests, which is exactly where we are. The latest "strategy" is just another shuffle of the cards.

    Apart from the nonsense of hoarding, the present situation allows for ad-hoc housing dotted all over the place, leading to increased costs for infrastructure, typically the foot dragging of the national broadband plan. Another bugbear of mine is the "pincushion" effect of electricity poles dotted all over the landscape, to service the dotted houses.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    I agree with (only) one thing the Count has said....."When was zoning ever a concern in Ireland?"

    Quite, we have had various "spatial strategies" and of course we have that hoary old chestnut, the county development plans. However, we still have the prospect hanging over us of the constitutional issue, used by successive governments to avoid having any form of realistic planning.

    Without a methodology of deciding what to do with land, definitively, we are subject to vested interests, which is exactly where we are. The latest "strategy" is just another shuffle of the cards.

    Apart from the nonsense of hoarding, the present situation allows for ad-hoc housing dotted all over the place, leading to increased costs for infrastructure, typically the foot dragging of the national broadband plan. Another bugbear of mine is the "pincushion" effect of electricity poles dotted all over the landscape, to service the dotted houses.
    I think people are right to be cautious - lest it turns into something unintended that doesn't prioritise the housing need. I would be concerned that pressure might be applied to rezone parts of public parks for example - but don't think we will see any general increase in inappropriate zonings - zoning is a function of councillors who - I hope - have learned from the excesses of the past.

    The first target should be inappropriately zoned lands (large tracts of urban land are zoned 'agricultural' 'greenbelt' or 'rural amenity' - a nonsense, but kept that way due to nimbyism). Derelict Local Authority/semi-state lands need to be looked at too.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,945

    Default Re: Fine Gael Handing State Land to Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Publicrealm View Post
    I think people are right to be cautious - lest it turns into something unintended that doesn't prioritise the housing need. I would be concerned that pressure might be applied to rezone parts of public parks for example - but don't think we will see any general increase in inappropriate zonings - zoning is a function of councillors who - I hope - have learned from the excesses of the past.

    The first target should be inappropriately zoned lands (large tracts of urban land are zoned 'agricultural' 'greenbelt' or 'rural amenity' - a nonsense, but kept that way due to nimbyism). Derelict Local Authority/semi-state lands need to be looked at too.
    Indeed, and also, given that the Mount Congreve estate was gifted to the Irish state, surely that should also be looked at.


    http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...e#.W52DfvZFzIU
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us