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Thread: The Occupied Territories Bill

  1. #1
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    Default The Occupied Territories Bill

    This "Occupied Territories" bill by Senator Frances Black seems like it's going to create a massive [email protected]#% for little tangible benefit if it ever becomes law.

    This is what happens when people allow their heart to rule the head. Makes you feel good and morally superior, a particularly Irish failing.........stick to the singin Frances.

    Irish workers and companies may be forced to choose between breaking Irish law or US law, with no alternative that doesn't break a law.



    What a mess. A new Irish bill that would criminalize trade in products and services produced in Israeli settlements could have major consequences for US companies like Apple.
    Fortune
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    I am hoping more details on this will be released soon either way. Fianna Fail are also considering backing it.

    It's not hard to be morally superior to Israel these days in fairness. How many 14 year olds have they shot dead this week?

    Brutal and cold-blooded cynicism is a particular American failing.

    Some form of sanctions need to be implemented, not on Israel itself but on production/profit gained from OCCUPIED territories in the OCCUPIED State of Palestine.

    Stealing land, ethnic cleansing and shooting dead protesters are all far more illegal than hypothetical commercial law violations.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    So, 25-20 in favor in the Seanad.

    I wasn't referring to moral superiority over the Israelis, I agree that's relatively easy.

    I was referring to an Irish sense of moral superiority over other western countries, particularly the US and the old European colonists. We were victims, we understand. Not unlike blacks in the US who seek reparations for slavery.

    If, as Coveney says, the AG claims the issue is a trade matter, and the EU has jurisdiction over that, then the onus is on the bill promoters to explain how they would overcome that. How do they prevent importation into Ireland, occupied territory product that has been legally imported into another EU country.

    If free movement of goods falls, how long before free movement of people........
    Reminds me of Brexit.....
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    I agree with Count B, this is complete virtue signalling.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Great, positive move. We have an obligation to oppose such brutality and this bill is a welcome aspect of such opposition.

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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    If Ireland wants to "punish" Israel it has other options. Recall the ambass, Break diplomatic ties, mount a campaign at the UN, win the Eurovision.....refuse to participate in the Eurovision........

    Provide Irish citizenship to Palestinians, oh wait,.......

    Obligation my ass......

    Ireland owes a much greater obligation to it's EU partners with whom it has signed treaties, than it does to either the Israelis or Palestinians.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    On the contrary, our duties and responsibilities as humans towards those who are suffering and oppressed is many multiples of that due to those who live in relative peace and prosperity.

    Of course if your world view centers around markets and corporations then you may have an alternative view, where capital is more important than human beings and the interests of Apple trump those of children being murdered.

    Ireland and the Irish people have many flaws - the compassion and solidarity normal Irish people have towards Palestinians is one of the high points.

    For instance, while doing my grocery shopping yesterday I noticed that the potatoes I was about to purchase were of Israeli origin, dispite labeling which implied they were Irish. I alerted some fellow shoppers around me who, to a man, removed the offending items from their trollies.

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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Seeing Israeli potatoes sold in Irish supermarkets makes me cringe, and I do not purchase them. You are not putting that on me. I nevertheless believe that this Seanad move is pure virtue-signalling, and is unlikely to achieve anything of practical value.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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    Default Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Empathy.. What a terrible trait. Where is the good old noble callousness?

    The EU and Ireland have an obligation under international law not to purchase goods produced from illegal occupation and land theft.

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    Default Maidir Le: Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    Empathy.. What a terrible trait. Where is the good old noble callousness?

    The EU and Ireland have an obligation under international law not to purchase goods produced from illegal occupation and land theft.
    I suppose it would be asking too much for you to cite the authority in international law for your claim?
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Maidir Le: Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    On the contrary, our duties and responsibilities as humans towards those who are suffering and oppressed is many multiples of that due to those who live in relative peace and prosperity.

    Of course if your world view centers around markets and corporations then you may have an alternative view, where capital is more important than human beings and the interests of Apple trump those of children being murdered.

    Ireland and the Irish people have many flaws - the compassion and solidarity normal Irish people have towards Palestinians is one of the high points.

    For instance, while doing my grocery shopping yesterday I noticed that the potatoes I was about to purchase were of Israeli origin, dispite labeling which implied they were Irish. I alerted some fellow shoppers around me who, to a man, removed the offending items from their trollies.

    I'm not a defender of the Israeli settlements, but recognize there are two sides.
    When 6M Israelis or Jews are surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims, some openly calling for their destruction/elimination I recognize Israel's right to defend itself.
    It's not as if the Muslim countries are short of land.....


    Who labeled the potatoes, the producer, the importer, or the retailer?

    A better question to ask is why is a small arid country like Israel able to sell potatoes competitively in Irish grocery stores? Oranges I understand, potatoes I don't.



    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: Maidir Le: Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    I'm not a defender of the Israeli settlements, but recognize there are two sides.
    When 6M Israelis or Jews are surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims, some openly calling for their destruction/elimination I recognize Israel's right to defend itself.
    It's not as if the Muslim countries are short of land.....


    Who labeled the potatoes, the producer, the importer, or the retailer?

    A better question to ask is why is a small arid country like Israel able to sell potatoes competitively in Irish grocery stores? Oranges I understand, potatoes I don't.



    For someone who is not a defender you gave it a good go.

    Perhaps you have seen the video doing the rounds this weekend of two teenagers being murdered in an Israeli attack in Gaza.

    Regarding the spuds, I believe a ln Irish company imported and packaged them... I'll see if I can find a photograph.

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    Default Re: Maidir Le: Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post

    Regarding the spuds, I believe a ln Irish company imported and packaged them... I'll see if I can find a photograph.
    If that is the case, then I have no problem with boycotting such a company and would agree with boycotting them. However, I do not endorse the 'BDS' movement as I believe that their cause actually damages progressive voices within Israel, and also because some who support the 'BDS' movement run dangerously close to, if not actually being outright anti-semites.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  14. #14
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    Default Maidir Le: Re: Maidir Le: Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    For someone who is not a defender you gave it a good go.

    Perhaps you have seen the video doing the rounds this weekend of two teenagers being murdered in an Israeli attack in Gaza.

    Regarding the spuds, I believe a ln Irish company imported and packaged them... I'll see if I can find a photograph.
    If all it takes is three short sentences from me, to persuade you that I've done a good job defending the Israelis, that speaks loudly to the lack of moral authority on the other side.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: Maidir Le: Re: Maidir Le: Re: The Occupied Territories Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    If all it takes is three short sentences from me, to persuade you that I've done a good job defending the Israelis, that speaks loudly to the lack of moral authority on the other side.
    You know what I meant... you said you were not a defender, and then went on to try and defend.

    Happily, your position is very much a minority one in Ireland.

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