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Thread: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

  1. #16
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    "People are way too into their consumerist lifestyles to even consider the economic hardships involved in us going it on our own."

    If that is so, then the term "Sinn Fein" is now meaningless and redundant.

    I see no reason now why Sinn fein and FF should not merge.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Finally got around to reading the document and I think it offers a pragmatic approach, for dissenting republicans, to the idea of a border poll.

    Essentially the IRSP are saying that they reject the GFA, partition and the resultant Unionist Veto built into Northern Ireland. Rather than sporadic military action they see greater benefit in campaigning for and participating in a border poll due to demographic changes. If a poll results in a vote to maintain partition that is irrelevant for the IRSP because partition remains illegitimate and it constitutes a gerrymandered vote. Having a poll will, like in Scotland and Catalunya, kick start major discussions about partition and a united Ireland and in particular will engage youth and others who are not currently interested in politics. They also feel that in the long term there is a realistic prospect,due to demographic changes, of a successful outcome.

    There is more to gain they say, than lose by engaging in a campaign for a border poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    I think that strategically the argument for a united Ireland out of the EU is best had after a ''united Ireland.''
    I think this is basically their position: [From the document]:
    "Upon any successful outcome in an Irish border poll, the IRSP would simultaneously and
    immediately commence campaigning for an Irish withdrawal from the European Union"


    Their main point is that it is impossible to build a worthwhile United Ireland within EU constraints so it will be necessary to leave as they believe it impossible to reform the EU from within.

    Personally I think this initiative is an encouraging sign that anti-GFA republicans are "getting over it" and critically engaging with concrete realities in a mature way rather than wallowing in bitterness at perceived betrayals along with having a futile dedication to militarism.

    I find this document to be a worthy one with some good points raised - it's certainly not the be-all and end-all but hopefully it is the start of an important discussion around critical engagement with a border poll.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  3. #18
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    I wonder what Unionism makes of the idea. The IRSP have an ally in so far as the DUP want out of Europe too although maybe not for the same reasons. How does an ''Irexit'' sit with them post United Ireland. That's if we ever get there without Capitalism's distractions with another phoney sectarian side show war. [as observed by Costello in the 1970's]
    Happiness is an inside job.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    I think you might be confusing the IRSP with the INLA.
    Perhaps it is you that is confused. Surely you are well aware that they were two cheeks of the same a***?
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    "People are way too into their consumerist lifestyles to even consider the economic hardships involved in us going it on our own."

    If that is so, then the term "Sinn Fein" is now meaningless and redundant
    .

    I see no reason now why Sinn fein and FF should not merge.
    It more than likely is, the last twenty years have opened up the world and supranational factors have now made sovereignty something of a moot point.

    Concepts such as the traditional "working class" have also become somewhat redundant as well, when that term in a political sense should mean those on all kinds of low incomes rather than those just in the traditional Industrial work sphere.

    As for SF and FF merging, they are currently much less similar to each other than the likes of FF/FG/Lab/SDs/Greens etc are to each other.

    Not that I hold out any belief that SF will be any great shakes in office, but they are not yet part of the existing back scratching nexus of the existing governing parties that control the Irish State.


    I intensely dislike the federalist direction the EU is heading in and it is only a matter of time before it becomes another USA style superpower.

    Our problem is that we are in debt for €200bn or so and we have no currency of our own. If we left the Euro we'd be subject to crippling interest rate hikes and we'd be faced with huge mortgage defaults as the mortgage market here is propped up by currently ridiculously low interest rates, indeed whether we are in or out of the Euro that's a very serious background problem for us.

    We are enmeshed in the grip of an EU which is torturous to leave and the foreign multinationals that our overinflated GDP figures rely on require us to continue in the EU so that they can continue their business smoothly.


    If it was just a matter of saying abracadabra we're out and our way of life could continue without severe hardship, then that'd be great.

    Wishful thinking is little more than self-indulgence.
    Last edited by Shaadi; 14-09-2017 at 05:15 PM.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Perhaps it is you that is confused. Surely you are well aware that they were two cheeks of the same a***?
    Really...
    Quote. Former Unity MP for Mid-Ulster Bernadette McAliskey served on the executive of the IRSP. She resigned following the failure of a motion to be passed which would have brought the INLA under the control of the IRSP Ard Comhairle (executive committee) unquote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_...ocialist_Party

    Cheeky cheeky.
    Happiness is an inside job.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    Really...
    Quote. Former Unity MP for Mid-Ulster Bernadette McAliskey served on the executive of the IRSP. She resigned following the failure of a motion to be passed which would have brought the INLA under the control of the IRSP Ard Comhairle (executive committee) unquote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_...ocialist_Party

    Cheeky cheeky.
    Fair enough. I have to admit I was not previously aware of McAliskey's involvement and subsequent resignation.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Fair enough. I have to admit I was not previously aware of McAliskey's involvement and subsequent resignation.
    In fairness to you i think in light of what the IRSP are saying in the OP needs clarified with wikipedia....

    Quote... The party is a staunch supporter of Irish republicanism, it believes a united Ireland can only be achieved through armed action. unquote.

    Further... As of 11 October 2009, the INLA has ordered an end to the armed struggle, because unlike during the Troubles, the current political stance in Ulster allows the IRSP to contest fairly in new campaigns and local elections, as mentioned in their 2009 statement. INLA admitted to "faults and grievous errors" in their prosecution of the armed struggle, stating that "innocent people were killed and injured" and offering "as revolutionaries" a "sincere and heartfelt apology" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_...ocialist_Party

    I think you were justified in questioning morality earlier.

    From a link in the OP...
    Quote.. “For generations in Ireland the conflict has dictated that the only operation was armed action,” he said.

    “We firmly believe that the context has changed and this is the way forward as a viable option that will meet other objective of a 32-county socialist republic.” unquote. http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/0...poll--1127785/

    Incumbent on all concerned to avoid the ''faults and grievous errors'' of the past.
    Last edited by Trow; 14-09-2017 at 07:06 PM.
    Happiness is an inside job.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: IRSP wants a united Ireland that is not a part of the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Finally got around to reading the document and I think it offers a pragmatic approach, for dissenting republicans, to the idea of a border poll.

    Essentially the IRSP are saying that they reject the GFA, partition and the resultant Unionist Veto built into Northern Ireland. Rather than sporadic military action they see greater benefit in campaigning for and participating in a border poll due to demographic changes. If a poll results in a vote to maintain partition that is irrelevant for the IRSP because partition remains illegitimate and it constitutes a gerrymandered vote. Having a poll will, like in Scotland and Catalunya, kick start major discussions about partition and a united Ireland and in particular will engage youth and others who are not currently interested in politics. They also feel that in the long term there is a realistic prospect,due to demographic changes, of a successful outcome.

    There is more to gain they say, than lose by engaging in a campaign for a border poll.



    I think this is basically their position: [From the document]:
    "Upon any successful outcome in an Irish border poll, the IRSP would simultaneously and
    immediately commence campaigning for an Irish withdrawal from the European Union"


    Their main point is that it is impossible to build a worthwhile United Ireland within EU constraints so it will be necessary to leave as they believe it impossible to reform the EU from within.

    Personally I think this initiative is an encouraging sign that anti-GFA republicans are "getting over it" and critically engaging with concrete realities in a mature way rather than wallowing in bitterness at perceived betrayals along with having a futile dedication to militarism.

    I find this document to be a worthy one with some good points raised - it's certainly not the be-all and end-all but hopefully it is the start of an important discussion around critical engagement with a border poll.
    That's a darn good answer SGD. Personally i see a whole big grey area around the border poll and Irish reunification. Although the principal of consent is there we're bogged down here and now over what was agreed and what was'nt [as per Irish Language Act] and other issues. [St. Andrews and beyond]

    Talk from the Unionist camps say the Union is secure. What will they be saying when and if a referendum [border poll] is called.?

    In recent elections the Combined Loyalist Military Command issued a directive to it membership to vote DUP.

    I'd suggest that the bitter little pill Republican dissidents had to swallow with regard the GFA and power sharing in a six County interim solution tastes a whole lot more bitter in a nine county Dail mixture for Loyalist/Unionism.

    A whole lot of ''getting over'' to be had yet.

    Sugar anyone?
    Last edited by Trow; 19-09-2017 at 12:35 AM.
    Happiness is an inside job.

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