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Thread: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

  1. #31
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Your question presupposes that NK should be allowed to provocatively fire missiles at will.......
    No it does'nt.

    Trumps remark suggests it's ok to wipe a country out. Is he politically covering himself for a pre-empted strike?
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    No it does'nt.

    Trumps remark suggests it's ok to wipe a country out. Is he politically covering himself for a pre-empted strike?
    That's not at all what they suggest. Looks like you didn't read, or at least understand my response to CF. Neither you nor me have a clue whether the US will make a pre-emptive strike, nuclear or otherwise.


    NK is the first, and so far only, country to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Your question presupposes that NK should be allowed to provocatively fire missiles at will.......


    Would likely save the lives of millions of innocent South Korean, Japanese, and maybe US men, women, and children, over and above those that would surely be lost.
    Oh please. Yemen is destroyed, Libya destroyed, Iraq in bits, Afghanistan in bits. Drones take people out illegally at will. Should this be 'allowed' ?

    The US is a massive nuclear power has had the screws on North Korea since forever. North Korea were bombed flat once before by the US. The experience seems to have gone deep.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    That's not at all what they suggest. Looks like you didn't read, or at least understand my response to CF. Neither you nor me have a clue whether the US will make a pre-emptive strike, nuclear or otherwise.


    NK is the first, and so far only, country to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
    Highly suggestible to me that the utterings from Trump mean military action. Little clues to intention. My post that prompted your response has no origins in your response to C. Flower.

    A pre-emptive strike is every bit possible given US military history.

    North Korea outing itself from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty can be viewed as a Policy of ambiguity.
    Quote.. Four UN member states have never accepted the NPT, three of which are thought to possess nuclear weapons: India, Israel, and Pakistan. In addition, South Sudan, founded in 2011, has not joined.

    Israel is deliberately ambiguous regarding its nuclear weapons status. unquote.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty...uclear_Weapons

    Strategic ambiguity.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy...rate_ambiguity

    So far all i hear is tough talk and see missiles being tested. Let he who is without sin.....
    Last edited by Trow; 21-09-2017 at 11:12 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Oh please. Yemen is destroyed, Libya destroyed, Iraq in bits, Afghanistan in bits. Drones take people out illegally at will. Should this be 'allowed' ?

    The US is a massive nuclear power has had the screws on North Korea since forever. North Korea were bombed flat once before by the US. The experience seems to have gone deep.
    False equivalence! Don't recall Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan threatening nuclear attack on anyone.


    Saddam otoh went to some length to create the illusion that he possessed WOMD.


    No more than artillery or aircraft, drones are not WOMD. Again a false equivalence.

    NK joined the NN-PT in 1985, and withdrew in 2003, after being accused of violating a 1990's uranium enrichment agreement.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    Highly suggestible to me that the utterings from Trump mean military action. Little clues to intention. My post that prompted your response has no origins in your response to C. Flower.

    A pre-emptive strike is every bit possible given US military history.

    North Korea outing itself from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty can be viewed as a Policy of ambiguity.
    Quote.. Four UN member states have never accepted the NPT, three of which are thought to possess nuclear weapons: India, Israel, and Pakistan. In addition, South Sudan, founded in 2011, has not joined.

    Israel is deliberately ambiguous regarding its nuclear weapons status. unquote.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty...uclear_Weapons

    Strategic ambiguity.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy...rate_ambiguity

    So far all i hear is tough talk and see missiles being tested. Let he who is without sin.....
    I think the highlighted text qualifies as the most contradiction in the fewest words, I've ever come across.


    If NK claims its goal is nuclear weaponry, which it openly does, there's not much ambiguity there. You'd think you'd have figured that out.


    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    I think the highlighted text qualifies as the most contradiction in the fewest words, I've ever come across. If NK claims its goal is nuclear weaponry, which it openly does, there's not much ambiguity there. You'd think you'd have figured that out.
    So who ordered the bomber and fighter jet escort off the East coast of North Korea since i last posted?

    Having nuclear weapons and actually using them are two different things. Enter ambiguity.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    So who ordered the bomber and fighter jet escort off the East coast of North Korea since i last posted?

    Having nuclear weapons and actually using them are two different things. Enter ambiguity.
    I'd guess General Matthis ordered it. Trump has devolved operational decision making to him. To my knowledge. no one has claimed, confirmed, or denied, that they were nuke armed.


    Anyway when you raised the issue of ambiguity it was in relation to NK, not the US, which has had, but hasn't used nukes in 70 years. So, bad analogy.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    [FONT=arial]Anyway when you raised the issue of ambiguity it was in relation to NK, not the US, which has had, but hasn't used nukes in 70 years. So, bad analogy
    And i'm still talking in relation to North Korea when i say ''Having nuclear weapons and actually using them are two different things.'' So,.....
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    And i'm still talking in relation to North Korea when i say ''Having nuclear weapons and actually using them are two different things.'' So,.....
    US has not threatened NK with nukes. It's capable of destroying NK without resorting to nukes, but not without potentially millions of casualties in SK.


    I understand the difference between using and not using, but don't understand your reason for raising it, because it applies to every nuke power. NK is no different.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    US has not threatened NK with nukes. It's capable of destroying NK without resorting to nukes, but not without potentially millions of casualties in SK.


    I understand the difference between using and not using, but don't understand your reason for raising it, because it applies to every nuke power. NK is no different.
    I think, just like the developing situation between NK and USA we're in danger of misreading each other.
    You raise the point that the US could destroy NK without the use of ..'nukes.'' I'd be concerned that any attack on NK might provoke them to deploy ''their'' nukes.

    The situation needs delicate diplomacy in my and others opinions especially after NK's claim that the US has declared war via a Trump tweet. NK is toying with the rules for engagement in the military sense and frankly from were i'm looking it's difficult to conclude who is the actual aggressor given the tit for tat threatening language.

    Two wrongs won't make it right. It's a difficult situation and hard to assess when on one hand you have a man [Trump] who only views the World in dollars, dimes and cents, while on the other we have a man hell bent on gaining a status in the World via a much televised war game.

    Matters are dangerously close to all out conflict which i'm sure would become as unpopular as previous failed US military endeavours in the area. Trump missed out on that draft due to issues with his feet. [medical condition] Here we have him now in a position were a mere stroke of the pen could unleash hell. Do i detect a hint of personal vendetta on either side?
    Last edited by Trow; 26-09-2017 at 01:34 PM.
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    I think, just like the developing situation between NK and USA we're in danger of misreading each other.
    You raise the point that the US could destroy NK without the use of ..'nukes.'' I'd be concerned that any attack on NK might provoke them to deploy ''their'' nukes.

    The situation needs delicate diplomacy in my and others opinions especially after NK's claim that the US has declared war via a Trump tweet. NK is toying with the rules for engagement in the military sense and frankly from were i'm looking it's difficult to conclude who is the actual aggressor given the tit for tat threatening language.

    Two wrongs won't make it right. It's a difficult situation and hard to assess when on one hand you have a man [Trump] who only views the World in dollars, dimes and cents, while on the other we have a man hell bent on gaining a status in the World via a much televised war game.

    Matters are dangerously close to all out conflict which i'm sure would become as unpopular as previous failed US military endeavours in the area. Trump missed out on that draft due to issues with his feet. [medical condition] Here we have him now in a position were a mere stroke of the pen could unleash hell. Do i detect a hint of personal vendetta on either side?
    Yes I agree, I think we're in danger of misreading each other. I agree it's most unfortunate that matters have become so volatile when we have Trump in charge, but it was probably always on the cards, and it takes two to tango.


    The only saving grace is that the broader US public and even the Democractic opposition agree that the generals are much more level headed than the boss and will work hard to avoid the worst, but not necessarily avoid military action.


    From day one Sec Def Matthis, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Dunford agreed that both of them would never be out of the country at the same time. That's a sombre acknowlegement of what they're dealing with. Now with General Kelly as Trump's CoS that alliance is further strengthened.


    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    [FONT=arial]
    The only saving grace is that the broader US public and even the Democractic opposition agree that the generals are much more level headed than the boss and will work hard to avoid the worst, but not necessarily avoid military action.

    From day one Sec Def Matthis, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Dunford agreed that both of them would never be out of the country at the same time. That's a sombre acknowlegement of what they're dealing with. Now with General Kelly as Trump's CoS that alliance is further strengthened.
    Donald should learn that you cant go at every challenge in life with a 9 iron and one liner movie style tough talks.Least not when you're crap at golf and a golden raspberry award winner. Kim Jong Un should learn that just like playing with pyrotechnics, things can backfire in very harmful ways.

    It is evident the US has it's military dispositions in order while NK is still at the testing stage...., of rockets and another's patience.
    Last edited by Trow; 26-09-2017 at 05:32 PM.
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  14. #44
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    Donald should learn that you cant go at every challenge in life with a 9 iron and one liner movie style tough talks.Least not when you're crap at golf and a golden raspberry award winner. Kim Jong Un should learn that just like playing with pyrotechnics, things can backfire in very harmful ways.

    It is evident the US has it's military dispositions in order while NK is still at the testing stage...., of rockets and another's patience.
    Agreed, but I doubt Donny wants to learn, he's at his happiest when firing up his base, and Kim is in a different bind. The NK culture is that if he is seen to blink he loses face with his own, and then he believes rightly or wrongly that the knives or poison are out for him........


    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: World War 3 - Not a Pretty Sight

    And so, having clarified that this North Korea V's USA situation has nothing to do with the Irish, North or South, what is the position re Trumps Executive Order as to me doing business with North Korea in relation to the supply of sea food?

    I mean, people have to eat, myself included and as if the future was not uncertain enough over Brexit and head scratching as to who'm i should pay taxes to and whether or not i should relocate my base from the Antrim coast to the Donegal coast in order to trade fairly with France. Worst case scenario i lose my job.

    I'm just Paddy by the sea looking outwards and war or no war the humanitarian in me says i should be granted a special neutrality status North or South so that my little cottage sized industry can both survive and potentially expand further East preventing arguably a food crisis in another Country.

    A view of the global effect from a Socialist on a distant shore.
    Last edited by Trow; 26-09-2017 at 09:52 PM.
    Happiness is an inside job.

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