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Thread: The Deported Veterans of America

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Wash DC
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Between 2002 and 2015, 109,000 non citizens have used military service as a means of obtaining citizenship. Zero Irish among them. Dubaya eased the rules by Executive Order after 9/11, and they are still in place.

    https://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-shee...ice-fact-sheet
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    7

    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Yes and no. You can't tell if there are any Irish among them. What you can tell is that there were no naturalization ceremonies in Ireland

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    3,537

    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    (posting for a friend as i noticed his piece sheds light on what is to come if the 45th pushes his policies on mass deportation. rny)

    Hello everyone,
    Have you ever heard of veterans from the US Armed Forces that ended up being deported? This is the English version of a report that I've published in a Portuguese outlet. Would like to know your thoughts about it.

    Special report: The deported veterans of America.
    Thanks
    ntp

    ---

    Highlights:

    They fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. After being honorably discharged they found out that they were not citizens as they thought they were: they were convicted of aggravated felonies and were deported. Now they struggle to come back alive.

    Their stories, heard by SÁBADO, all fit in the findings of an American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of California report, which is based on interviews with 59 veterans from 22 countries and was published in the summer of 2016. Among the findings were that:

    - Most of them lived in the United States for decades; they had already lost their ties to the nations where they were born;

    - Nearly all deported veterans have left behind families, including children;

    - In many cases they committed minor crimes after facing difficulties in adjusting to civilian life;

    - The federal government failed to ensure that service members were naturalized, as they were entitled, during military careers or shortly thereafter;

    - The government failure to provide clear and accurate information about naturalization resulted in many veterans believing their military service automatically made them U.S. citizens;

    - Deportations have denied veterans comprehensive medical care in the United States, leaving many to die or suffer without treatment. Many suffer from Post-Traumatic Stress and others end up dying of other diseases for lack of treatment;

    - Veterans deported to Mexico or Central America face serious threats from gangs and drug cartels that seek to recruit them because of their military training and threaten them and their families with death if they refuse.
    An interesting case and topic and certainly not a black or white situation as regards right and wrong.

    Personally I think the rights and wrongs of the Deportations shouldn't be particularly different in the case of someone who served in the military except for whatever mitigation would be due to someone suffering PTSD or other health problems from their participation in the military.

    Indeed if there were serious financial implications for the military as regards aftercare and compensation then there'd be less inclination to use troops to scratch itches rather than where absolutely necessary.

    Also I wouldn't see that joining the military is necessarily a freely taken choice, it's a road to an education or career that's not easily accessable by the less well off in normal circumstances.

    They say that hard cases make bad law, I'd see it that the Deportation laws should not be set outside at the whims of whether someone served in the military or not.

    The USA is a Republic, Liberty, Equality, Fraternity should apply to all its citizens, when people are only legal residents things are rightly in different territory as regards rights. It does seem wrong that the child of legal residents who effectively grew up as American as most in the USA becomes a foreigner in his now home country.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    5,426

    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaadi View Post
    An interesting case and topic and certainly not a black or white situation as regards right and wrong.

    Personally I think the rights and wrongs of the Deportations shouldn't be particularly different in the case of someone who served in the military except for whatever mitigation would be due to someone suffering PTSD or other health problems from their participation in the military.

    Indeed if there were serious financial implications for the military as regards aftercare and compensation then there'd be less inclination to use troops to scratch itches rather than where absolutely necessary.

    Also I wouldn't see that joining the military is necessarily a freely taken choice, it's a road to an education or career that's not easily accessable by the less well off in normal circumstances.

    They say that hard cases make bad law, I'd see it that the Deportation laws should not be set outside at the whims of whether someone served in the military or not.

    The USA is a Republic, Liberty, Equality, Fraternity should apply to all its citizens, when people are only legal residents things are rightly in different territory as regards rights. It does seem wrong that the child of legal residents who effectively grew up as American as most in the USA becomes a foreigner in his now home country.
    Hey Shaadi, nice talking to you ...
    (sooo, i think i will have to break my rule of not talking on Social Media w people i don't personally know when i am in a reviewing assignment .. )

    In this particular case of the Veterans if you read the piece carefully the most important take home message is that these guys enlisted thinking that they would automatically become citizens ... they didnt and no one along their x many years of service ever told them clearly they had to take care of that independently of the Army..

    This was discussed in another forum and my opinion on this - which lines up perfecting with ntp (also portuguese) appears to be quite different than yours as a group ... while we think that Obviously if you believe in the concept of having an Army of Citizens to defend your Country interests then these people should either be citizens as they walk in the door or they should immediately be given citizenship. This is clearly not the view in Ireland and we've held the chat with other folks in another forum and they sound pretty much like CF with her question.. ."so you think these people should be given citizenship bc they fight with the US army ?" there seems to be a group dissociation btw service to the country and citizenship ...which appears to be more fluid/malleable in your irish case, and much more rigid in ours (portuguese) ...

    another point of the piece is that if these 'undocumented' immigrants die in combat they are actually given citizenship...the fact they are summarily kicked out for offenses in some cases like selling marijuanna etc .. is just appalling to me. Even if they commit some serious crime they need to be dealt with here (in the US) by the country they fought to defend..

    this example highlights how different cultures (even within Europe) process/consider the same question .. which i believe might be one of the reasons i keep running head to head with a number of people over here..

    anyway now that i am done breaking my own rules..

    ...i hear there will be more interesting stuff coming up with NI to chat about soon ...

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