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Thread: The Deported Veterans of America

  1. #1
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    Default The Deported Veterans of America

    (posting for a friend as i noticed his piece sheds light on what is to come if the 45th pushes his policies on mass deportation. rny)

    Hello everyone,
    Have you ever heard of veterans from the US Armed Forces that ended up being deported? This is the English version of a report that I've published in a Portuguese outlet. Would like to know your thoughts about it.

    Special report: The deported veterans of America.
    Thanks
    ntp

    ---

    Highlights:

    They fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. After being honorably discharged they found out that they were not citizens as they thought they were: they were convicted of aggravated felonies and were deported. Now they struggle to come back alive.

    Their stories, heard by SÁBADO, all fit in the findings of an American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of California report, which is based on interviews with 59 veterans from 22 countries and was published in the summer of 2016. Among the findings were that:

    - Most of them lived in the United States for decades; they had already lost their ties to the nations where they were born;

    - Nearly all deported veterans have left behind families, including children;

    - In many cases they committed minor crimes after facing difficulties in adjusting to civilian life;

    - The federal government failed to ensure that service members were naturalized, as they were entitled, during military careers or shortly thereafter;

    - The government failure to provide clear and accurate information about naturalization resulted in many veterans believing their military service automatically made them U.S. citizens;

    - Deportations have denied veterans comprehensive medical care in the United States, leaving many to die or suffer without treatment. Many suffer from Post-Traumatic Stress and others end up dying of other diseases for lack of treatment;

    - Veterans deported to Mexico or Central America face serious threats from gangs and drug cartels that seek to recruit them because of their military training and threaten them and their families with death if they refuse.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Perhaps it will serve as a lesson to others considering joining the military machine... The phrase 'honourably discharged' always makes me laugh, as if there was anything honourable in the first place about 'serving' in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    A disgusting amount of Americans have a disturbing fetish for all things military.

    Should we be surprised about disposable pawns being treated as such? It has always been the case in militaries the world over, once the soldiers have served their use they are discarded.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Perhaps it will serve as a lesson to others considering joining the military machine... The phrase 'honourably discharged' always makes me laugh, as if there was anything honourable in the first place about 'serving' in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    A disgusting amount of Americans have a disturbing fetish for all things military.

    Should we be surprised about disposable pawns being treated as such? It has always been the case in militaries the world over, once the soldiers have served their use they are discarded.
    Very interesting answer Saoirse. Thank you.

    I think the piece works from an immigration angle. That immigrants in the US are ready to give their lives for a chance to stay in the country, close to their families and to that which they are familiar with.

    Do you know if a person needs to be a citizen of the ROI to join your Army? (if you do have one, i don't know) .. also is there a path to citizenship in the ROI through the Army?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Perhaps it will serve as a lesson to others considering joining the military machine... The phrase 'honourably discharged' always makes me laugh, as if there was anything honourable in the first place about 'serving' in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    A disgusting amount of Americans have a disturbing fetish for all things military.

    Should we be surprised about disposable pawns being treated as such? It has always been the case in militaries the world over, once the soldiers have served their use they are discarded.
    Completely agree with this. Also to mention in passing our nearest neighbour the UK recruits child soldiers to this day. 'Army Dreamers' as Kate Bush rightly put it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Dreamers
    Last edited by pluralist; 10-03-2017 at 10:47 PM.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    Do you know if a person needs to be a citizen of the ROI to join your Army? (if you do have one, i don't know) .. also is there a path to citizenship in the ROI through the Army?
    On the first question, I don't know - as far as I can see, the recruitment requirements don't specifically mention citizenship as a requirement.

    http://www.military.ie/en/careers/army/recruits/

    On the second question, I doubt it but again don't know.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post

    Do you know if a person needs to be a citizen of the ROI to join your Army? (if you do have one, i don't know) .. also is there a path to citizenship in the ROI through the Army?
    Q1. No. The Irish Defence Forces will take the following:

    Irish Citizens
    A Refugee under the Refugee Act 1996
    Nationals of EEA States, i.e. The European Economic Area consists of the member states of the European Union along with Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway
    Nationals of any other state who are lawfully present in Ireland and have had five (5) years lawful and unbroken residency in the State.


    Q.2. No. The Irish Defence Forces appear to have no problem filling the ranks and hence no particular need to recruit from abroad.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    The military culture of much of the world is disgusting and pretty sickening too.

    I remember being in a cinema with 2 friends in the Chelsea part of London in 2015. There were at least 2 RAF/British Navy/Army ads before the film started. After the second one, which again repeated the slogan of something like 'a life beyond borders/the ordinary', I just interrupted silence by saying something in an audible and hateful Irish accent like 'Jaysus look at this propaganda, a life beyond murders'. I swear half the crowd(largely middle aged and older people) stared me out of it as though I was in the IRA just for criticising such largescale brainwashing(the move was PG15, so it felt to me as though the ads were targeting people my friend's age-young twenties, even younger).

    Sure enough the younger of my two friends told me it is everywhere in Britain, always on the box etc. and a few days later before leaving what do you know, another of my friend's friends said he was joining the Army, not for any reason, just cos 'he felt like doing so'.

    Military advertising should not be allowed in my view. It targets young men before they are educated enough to decide for themselves if there is any purpose to joining said Army.

    Austria btw arrested deported dozens of American soldiers from an airport last year for carrying Arms without consulting the Austrian govt. In Switzerland everyone manages to keep a nice clean rifle at home from their obligatory military service days yet gun violence is much much lower than in America.

    America and Britain are the most brainwashed societies on the planet. Let's face it.

    How on Earth can a society mindlessly worship an Army? It is beyond me to understand how people can be so stupid. Anytime you talk to the average American or Brit about their Army they usually get all offended and prooffer how moral and great the majority of their soldiers are.

    The only thing that disgusts me about Prague's nightlife is the all-too visible presence of American soldiers out of uniform and looking for everyone to validate their right to be there. I only wish the legendary Czech and Polish capacity for self-regard and self-respect took on the military neutral aspects of their Austrian neighbours.
    Last edited by Apjp; 11-03-2017 at 12:38 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Completely agree with this. Also to mention in passing our nearest neighbour the UK recruits child soldiers to this day. 'Army Dreamers' as Kate Bush rightly put it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Dreamers

    thank you pluralist, this is a mystery to me: "Army Dreamers"

    how do you define child soldiers? how old?

    ntp: pay attention to this one !

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Q1. No. The Irish Defence Forces will take the following:

    Irish Citizens
    A Refugee under the Refugee Act 1996
    Nationals of EEA States, i.e. The European Economic Area consists of the member states of the European Union along with Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway
    Nationals of any other state who are lawfully present in Ireland and have had five (5) years lawful and unbroken residency in the State.


    Q.2. No. The Irish Defence Forces appear to have no problem filling the ranks and hence no particular need to recruit from abroad.
    Thank you Sam. Comprehensive as always.

    Q1. WoW ! so if i understand this correctly someone from Portugal can join your Army? and even better any other National from another state lawfully residing in Ireland also can do it ...

    Q2. Sure i believe that the Irish Defence Forces (sounds exactly like some other IDF i know) have no problem filling their ranks but that is not the question.

    My question was if you are a Foreign National residing lawfully in Ireland and you join the Army is there a path to citizenship?

    @ntp: another gem for you !! (maybe the US law was based on what they have on those Islands?)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    to the membership:
    I am tagging the posts i think my friend (ntp) should follow up closely

    I wish he could join the conversation and ask the questions himself but as far as this afternoon he could log into the forum but he did not have privileges to post (?)

    I don't get that ..why would you be allowed in, if you can't post? (maybe they changed the rules here?)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Started to read the piece, and when I realized how long it was skimmed over. I will get back to it.
    One thing that caught my eye was the distinction between those who were convicted felons and not. Not sure about the %.
    As a dual Irish/US citizen I have some sympathy for them all, but less for the convicted.
    If any alien whether legal or illegal is convicted, there's at least a colorable public policy case for deporting, as opposed to sticking the taxpayer for the cost of incarceration.
    I don't suggest it is a black or white issue. Maybe violent crime by vets, rape/murder, should result in automatic deportation, and non violent on a case by case basis.

    When I was approved for a Green Card in the late 1980's conviction free in Ireland was one condition, as was HIV negative.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    to the membership:
    I am tagging the posts i think my friend (ntp) should follow up closely

    I wish he could join the conversation and ask the questions himself but as far as this afternoon he could log into the forum but he did not have privileges to post (?)

    I don't get that ..why would you be allowed in, if you can't post? (maybe they changed the rules here?)
    Please send the details on to C.Flower myself and the other mods and we will look into it, sounds like a mistake. He/she may have accidentally got caught in the anti spam defenses.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  13. #13
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    It's a song by Kate Bush.Check her stuff out.Writes her own stuff.Talented but ...a Tory.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Started to read the piece, and when I realized how long it was skimmed over. I will get back to it.
    One thing that caught my eye was the distinction between those who were convicted felons and not. Not sure about the %.
    As a dual Irish/US citizen I have some sympathy for them all, but less for the convicted.
    If any alien whether legal or illegal is convicted, there's at least a colorable public policy case for deporting, as opposed to sticking the taxpayer for the cost of incarceration.
    I don't suggest it is a black or white issue. Maybe violent crime by vets, rape/murder, should result in automatic deportation, and non violent on a case by case basis.

    When I was approved for a Green Card in the late 1980's conviction free in Ireland was one condition, as was HIV negative.
    WHAT? you didn't have to check the box that said "I am NOT a Communist"?


    I agree this is the view of most naturalized Americans .. .

    the others for the most part stop reading at the word " convicted" - it doesn't matter of what 'crimes' .. it can be petty crimes, misdemeanors etc ..

    I think the hard core criminals (murder, rape etc) get thrown in jail without the US checking if they are citizens or not (a few 'illegals' are in death row in Texas .. I think)

    what i found curious about the piece was that:

    1. Contrary to the Portuguese Army (ONLY citizens can serve) you can serve in the US Army (Irish DF and UK Army) even if you are not a citizen, which means basically this is the same as hiring mercenaries for a really cheap price.

    2. Shocking to me was that these folks come through the door willing to give up their lives for a chance at having legal status, and are misled into thinking they are OK (citizens), say the same oaths as all other Citizens do and no one ever tells them they do not have the same rights as the others.

    3. This is an example that there are MANY more people like this out there (with green cards that are NOT fully protected under the law) ... I remember at some point people had been deported for having been convicted of marijuanna possession or something of the sort.

    --

    so if there are any Irish Green-card holders out there reading this you may as well use this opportunity to call an immigration lawyer and start the process for NATURALIZATION cos tomorrow g-d knows what Trump decides to do, he even barred green-card holders from whatever countries he listed in his muslim ban from going back home and he has placed travel restrictions on Mr Khan, a Naturalized citizen . Mr Khan is father of the marine killed in combat that supported Hillary at the DNC.

    In times like this I am feeling that even Naturalized citizens who do not agree with Mr Trump will not be safe.

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    Default Re: The Deported Veterans of America

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    thank you pluralist, this is a mystery to me: "Army Dreamers"

    how do you define child soldiers? how old?

    ntp: pay attention to this one !
    To join as a regular soldier you need to be at least 16 years old, although you can start the application process earlier, with your parents' permission. If you're under 18, you'll also need parental consent to join
    http://www.army.mod.uk/join/How-to-join.aspx
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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