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Thread: Saoradh

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    A load of nonsense.

    Eirigi tried this. You either participate in all elections in Ireland, starting of course with a focus on getting a few councillors elected, or you will have no springboard or platform or voice.

    When was the last time Eirigi were mentioned in the media?

    Looks more like a social club of people who don't believe in elections to me than a Socialist or Republican Party.

    It would answer people better to set up something really different that is bothered with democracy(to the extent that we have it) or else to join an existing party or group of the left.

    Join a Trade Union sure or Right 2 Water or something important at least.

    Sorry Sam you are still away with the fairies just like 5 years ago. I had some hope for some of the smaller left groups myself but SF, the Socialists, the Independent Left are the only real alternatives we have.

    As for not recognising the existing State, well that just shows pure ignorance imo.
    I disagree with a large potion of this.

    The right2water campaign demonstrated how people can have, as you put it a "springboard or platform or voice" without being beholden to elected representatives.

    Bourgeois elections are a pressure valve which have only served to castrate the majority - look how the right2water campaign had largely morphed into waiting to see what a Dáil committee has recommended.

    I do not object to using elections as a tactic but if you concentrate on getting Councillors elected (in reality who listens to them anyway?)then that is what the party and political movement becomes mainly about. It would be important for revolutionary or republican socialists to be aware of this, this is precisely what has happened to SF. It is foolish to presume that you can beat "them" by playing their own game, in their own system, by their own rules.

    That said the choice is not between a fundamentalist republican position of allegiance to a century old dejure republic and what SF have done.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Forward to where?
    To peaceful political action rather than posing with shades, berets and combat jackets. We have had enough flag-waving and marching

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    I disagree with a large potion of this.

    The right2water campaign demonstrated how people can have, as you put it a "springboard or platform or voice" without being beholden to elected representatives.

    Bourgeois elections are a pressure valve which have only served to castrate the majority - look how the right2water campaign had largely morphed into waiting to see what a Dáil committee has recommended.

    I do not object to using elections as a tactic but if you concentrate on getting Councillors elected (in reality who listens to them anyway?)then that is what the party and political movement becomes mainly about. It would be important for revolutionary or republican socialists to be aware of this, this is precisely what has happened to SF. It is foolish to presume that you can beat "them" by playing their own game, in their own system, by their own rules.

    That said the choice is not between a fundamentalist republican position of allegiance to a century old dejure republic and what SF have done.
    The point is you do everything, not just abstain among yourselves and decry how moronic all the voters and candidates are.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    The point is you do everything, not just abstain among yourselves and decry how moronic all the voters and candidates are.
    It's not as simple as that. I'm not saying that I necessarily support it but there is a considerable argument that can be made against revolutionary left groups running in elections and taking seats. History has shown this to be generally the beginning of co-option. And yes, I know what the Bolsheviks did, before the trots here jump in ... but the Bolsheviks also robbed banks and assassinated people and stuff like that so if you are simply going to imitate them you need to go the whole hog.

    Of course this debate is superfluous if you are a social democrat. In that case you are already co-opted.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Report on Saoradhs Ard Feis held over the weekend.
    http://saoradh.ie/saoradh-ard-fheis-report-2017/amp/
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    So Ireland would be the new Cuba? Personally I wish i was rich enough to wait forever for that. Handy cop-out

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Lenin was quoted in the main speech... Did he even get a token mention at SFs AF?
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  9. #24
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    Aug 2013
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    250

    Default Re: Saoradh

    If we could time travel back and make a Lenin and co who made safeguards to stop a Stalin then maybe that would matter, but it doesnt outside academia because they messed up hugely . Anyhow I am new to the social democrats by way of the independent left and I leave SF to speak for themselves
    Last edited by GregTimo; 21-11-2017 at 11:46 AM.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Saoradh

    In fairness fair play that they recognise people are detached from their politics and have emphasised the need for more activism. They do seem positive. But at the same time very, very niche.

    Also, and this isn't just an observation of Saoradh, but a major issue for the left as a whole is the globalised economy. The goal posts have moved substantially over the past 100 years and had a socialist state been established back then using the resources of the country for the people of the country equally then it probably could have worked. If you want to do that now it will require the population to go back to a fairly frugal existence when it comes to commodities and technology. No bad thing in a lot of ways but very hard to get popular support never mind implement.

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