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Thread: Saoradh

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    Default Saoradh

    I was interested to see the formation of a new new political party in Ireland ... Saoradh. It's first ard fheish was held on September 25 in Newry and was apparently attended by around 150 people including "many prominent republicans". The party will be "rooted in socialist politics" and may contest elections but "on an abstentionist basis with regards to foreign parliaments and partitionist assemblies". It's founding statement places it in the tradition of "Tone, Connolly, Mellows, Costello and Sands." An interesting selection to me.

    The full statement:

    Today, Saturday the 24th of September 2016, we a significant collective of Irish Republican activists, who for a number of years have acted autonomously, have after a number of years of debate, consultation and organisation today in Ard Fheis organised, constituted and launched a Revolutionary Irish Republican Party, the Party’s name is Saoradh.

    Saoradh believes that Ireland should be governed by the Irish People with the wealth and wealth producing mechanisms in the ownership of the Irish People. This can not happen while British imperialism undemocratically retains control of Irish destinies and partitions our nation, this cannot happen while a neocolonial elite in a subservient supposed indigenous administration sell’s the nation’s labour and natural resources to international capital.

    Saoradh does not believe that British imperialism or capitalist exploitation can be confronted in the structures they have created to consolidate their undemocratic control of the Irish nation. As such we believe any assembly claiming to speak for the Irish People without being elected by the united people of the Irish nation to be illegal. Saoradh will seek to organise and work with the Irish People rather than be consumed and usurped by the structures of Ireland’s enemy’s

    Standing on a long and proud revolutionary Irish Republican history of resistance, inspired by the actions and words of Tone of Connolly of Mellow’s of Costello and of Sand’s, upholding the founding documents of our forefathers - the 1916 proclamation, the declaration of independence and the democratic programme of the first Dail, Saoradh hereby declares its commitment to the unfinished revolution, the liberation of Ireland and the social emancipation of the Irish People.
    Question though. Is Saoradh simply the political arm of the New IRA or is there a broader composition? If so what is it?
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    No foreign parliament or partitionist assemblies. Councils only at first? I just read a book on Martin Ferris by JJ Barret. Sort of hagiography really. But what comes across is the view of republicans and socialists as distinct species. I have heard similar views from SF members here in Cork.One day these contradictions will bite the SF leadership on the arse. Possibly over immigration?

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Interesting.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    I was interested to see the formation of a new new political party in Ireland ... Saoradh. It's first ard fheish was held on September 25 in Newry and was apparently attended by around 150 people including "many prominent republicans". The party will be "rooted in socialist politics" and may contest elections but "on an abstentionist basis with regards to foreign parliaments and partitionist assemblies". It's founding statement places it in the tradition of "Tone, Connolly, Mellows, Costello and Sands." An interesting selection to me.

    The full statement:



    Question though. Is Saoradh simply the political arm of the New IRA or is there a broader composition? If so what is it?
    They received statements of support from New IRA aligned prisoners.

    Video of speech at their event:



    Recent statement from their facebook page:

    Saoradh, only two weeks old, has already had to deal with much harassment from the security services in both the six county and 26 county states.

    This week alone some of our members in Belfast have been stopped and harassed by the PSNI while bringing their kids to and from school and in Dublin a Saoradh meeting in a community centre was invaded by up to a dozen armed members of the Garda SDU.

    Our members are used to state harassment but things have really heated up since the formation of Saoradh just two weeks ago.

    Some will pass this off as "sure they are only dissidents" well that is very dangerous thinking.

    Both states view anyone who challenges the system as "dissident Republicans" and the water meter protests in the 26 counties is a good example of this.

    Those protesting against the privatisation of our water have been described as a "sinister fringe" , "dissident Republicans", and even compared to ISIS by a TD in Leinster House.

    The demonising of the protesters led to the 26 state making dozens of arrests and the jailing of protesters which then resulted in a Garda unit being established to spy on water meter protesters.

    The Gardai are now the private security firm of Irish Water as they were for Shell Oil a couple of years ago while at the same time claiming they cant tackle the rising crime rate because of a lack of resources yet can find twenty Gardai to stand around a hole in the ground.

    But the worst example has to be the arrests and charges of those who protested against the visit of Joan Burton to Jobstown two years ago which has led to twenty two people including a then fifteen year old boy facing charges raging from assault to false imprisonment for blocking a car for roughly two hours.

    Over 500 people attended that protest but only those who had a community, left wing or Republican leaning politics were charged.

    One of our own members who is 65 years of age is facing two counts of false imprisonment and a violent disorder charge because he took part in that protest and if found guilty of false imprisonment the maximum sentence is life.

    Compare the time and effort the 26 county state has put into the Jobstown protest then the bankers, corrupt politicians, and property developers who bankrupt the country.

    In the six counties we have the recent protest in regards to the sectarian march being forced through the Ardoyne in North Belfast.

    Look how the media and Stormont parties have vilified those who organised the protest and how a raised voice against a priest is being sickening portrayed as bad as the Loyalist Holycross protest in 2001.

    Both states want an end to protests against the system at all costs.

    We urge people to stand with us against state harassment as who will be next?

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

    It will be interesting to see how things develop but it's hard to see why they feel a need for another republican socialist group when there are a plethora of them already...
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Video of speech at their event:
    Pretty damn good, imo. Astonishingly huge emphasis on the working class and socialism. We even had a line from the Communist Manifesto thrown in at the end.

    Which led me to wonder. Why are all the "dissidents" in Ireland a thousand miles to the left of those in their former Republican home? Did "dissidence" lead them to revolutionary socialism or was revolutionary socialism somewhere behind their "dissidence"?


    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    It will be interesting to see how things develop but it's hard to see why they feel a need for another republican socialist group when there are a plethora of them already...
    Good question. It seems to me that their is a need for some sort of an "umbrella". Maybe it will happen with time ...
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    It sounds like another eirigi or maybe I'm being lazy.

    The focus on British Imperialism as our main problem is valid but narrow. Corporate imperialism has probably overtaken the Brits north and south?

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Pretty damn good, imo. Astonishingly huge emphasis on the working class and socialism. We even had a line from the Communist Manifesto thrown in at the end.

    Which led me to wonder. Why are all the "dissidents" in Ireland a thousand miles to the left of those in their former Republican home? Did "dissidence" lead them to revolutionary socialism or was revolutionary socialism somewhere behind their "dissidence"?
    I think we need to go a bit deeper to get an answer to this. Are these left wing, socialist politics something which are a fundamental value or something which is merely tacked onto the basic nationalist goal of a united Ireland?

    I think that history tells us that for a majority of the nationalist/republican movement the latter rings true. How else could Sinn Féin so effortlessly move away from what were supposedly long held revolutionary socialist politics to hold a center left position? The Connolly school has always been a small one.

    I have come to believe that the essential questions one needs to ask of any republican socialist formation is as follows:

    Is their fundamental goal building socialism, and how much of their resources are devoted to this goal? Does their objection to partition spring from a socialist analysis which recognises partition as a major imperialist roadblock to socialism, and as such its removal is imperative?

    Or is their starting point an aim to end partition?

    You may say, and I'd agree, that one cannot come without the other but the starting point is an important nuance. (one which you touched on above).

    I think for the majority of republican groups their starting point has been a desire to end partition for its own sake for traditional nationalist reasons (which are not necessarily at all illegitimate). The socialist politics have been used as a useful lever to attempt to attract radical support and to further the fundamental goal of ending partition. They are looking for reasons and more ammunition to persuade others to support ending partition.

    I think this becomes apparent when you look at where the efforts of these groups are expended. To come back to the subject of the thread, there were not many new faces in that video, or the audience listening. The messages of support from the republican prisoners are quite important to consider when pondering the questions I posed above.

    During the event Derry republican Thomas Ashe Mellon read out a message of support from prisoners aligned to the ‘IRA’ in Maghaberry and Portlaoise prisons, saying they rejected "sectarianism and sexism which have been prevalent in the past".

    A message was also read out from veteran Belfast republican Billy McKee, a founding member of the Provisional IRA.



    Good question. It seems to me that their is a need for some sort of an "umbrella". Maybe it will happen with time ...
    I am not enthused at all by any republican group, dissident or otherwise. I think many of them are heading down the same road again. They seem to think that the major reasons for failure were ones to do with betrayals or traitors. (i.e Adams and co). This is directly referenced in the video above:

    “I have no desire to sit as your chair for longer than is necessary. The Irish habit of following the personality rather than principles has been disastrous in the past for political movements and I am sure that as a collective we can rise above that."

    That is the easy answer, but the truth goes much deeper.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post

    I am not enthused at all by any republican group, dissident or otherwise. I think many of them are heading down the same road again. They seem to think that the major reasons for failure were ones to do with betrayals or traitors. (i.e Adams and co). This is directly referenced in the video above:

    “I have no desire to sit as your chair for longer than is necessary. The Irish habit of following the personality rather than principles has been disastrous in the past for political movements and I am sure that as a collective we can rise above that."

    That is the easy answer, but the truth goes much deeper.
    Good post.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Interesting interview about Saoradh. I suggest reading my post #7 in this thread and then this interview. (I am not enthused at all.)


    http://thepensivequill.am/2017/02/sa...-movement.html
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Interesting interview about Saoradh. I suggest reading my post #7 in this thread and then this interview. (I am not enthused at all.)


    http://thepensivequill.am/2017/02/sa...-movement.html
    Thanks for the link man. It's pretty stale stuff alright.

    A bit off topic but did you read the comments at the bottom? I searched for a few articles and this one was particularly grim http://thepensivequill.am/2016/03/di...-of-blood.html

    The "dissident movement" seems a woeful beast, at least those following the physical force approach. The likes of Saoradh...not sure what their view on arms is....just seem devoid of ideas.

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    Thanks for the link man. It's pretty stale stuff alright.

    A bit off topic but did you read the comments at the bottom? I searched for a few articles and this one was particularly grim http://thepensivequill.am/2016/03/di...-of-blood.html

    The "dissident movement" seems a woeful beast, at least those following the physical force approach. The likes of Saoradh...not sure what their view on arms is....just seem devoid of ideas.
    The whole thing is very bleak and grim.

    Saoradhs position as per that interview is that they do not recognise either the 26 or 6 country state and are opposed to "crown forces". Their engagement with the working class is to show them the "reality" of British occupation and the impact it has their lives. They advocate boycotting the election with the hope that turnout will drop below 50% which in their mind would demonstrate a wholesale rejection of Stormont and by extension partition. When they contest national elections north or south it will be on an abstentionist basis.

    We have seen all this before...
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Saoradh Easter parade Derry City....



    Part 2....



    Part 3...

    Last edited by Trow; 18-04-2017 at 06:26 PM.
    Happiness is an inside job.

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    A load of nonsense.

    Eirigi tried this. You either participate in all elections in Ireland, starting of course with a focus on getting a few councillors elected, or you will have no springboard or platform or voice.

    When was the last time Eirigi were mentioned in the media?

    Looks more like a social club of people who don't believe in elections to me than a Socialist or Republican Party.

    It would answer people better to set up something really different that is bothered with democracy(to the extent that we have it) or else to join an existing party or group of the left.

    Join a Trade Union sure or Right 2 Water or something important at least.

    Sorry Sam you are still away with the fairies just like 5 years ago. I had some hope for some of the smaller left groups myself but SF, the Socialists, the Independent Left are the only real alternatives we have.

    As for not recognising the existing State, well that just shows pure ignorance imo.

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Og View Post
    No foreign parliament or partitionist assemblies. Councils only at first? I just read a book on Martin Ferris by JJ Barret. Sort of hagiography really. But what comes across is the view of republicans and socialists as distinct species. I have heard similar views from SF members here in Cork.One day these contradictions will bite the SF leadership on the arse. Possibly over immigration?
    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    A load of nonsense.

    Eirigi tried this. You either participate in all elections in Ireland, starting of course with a focus on getting a few councillors elected, or you will have no springboard or platform or voice.

    When was the last time Eirigi were mentioned in the media?

    Looks more like a social club of people who don't believe in elections to me than a Socialist or Republican Party.

    It would answer people better to set up something really different that is bothered with democracy(to the extent that we have it) or else to join an existing party or group of the left.

    Join a Trade Union sure or Right 2 Water or something important at least.

    Sorry Sam you are still away with the fairies just like 5 years ago. I had some hope for some of the smaller left groups myself but SF, the Socialists, the Independent Left are the only real alternatives we have.

    As for not recognising the existing State, well that just shows pure ignorance imo.
    Agree broadly with that.

    The GFA is the only way forward

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    Default Re: Saoradh

    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post

    The GFA is the only way forward
    Forward to where?
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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