Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Elsewhere
    Posts
    831

    Default Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Exciting times in Irish archaeology!

    "Archaeologists have been searching for the Irish Palaeolithic since the 19th century, and now, finally, the first piece of the jigsaw has been revealed. This find adds a new chapter to the human history of Ireland"
    Along with the recent research results on ancient Irish DNA (here and here), this is ground-breaking in more ways than one.

    A remarkable archaeological discovery in a Co. Clare cave has pushed back the date of human existence in Ireland by 2,500 years. This discovery re-writes Irish archaeology and adds an entirely new chapter to human colonisation of the island - moving Ireland's story into a new era.

    Radiocarbon dating of a butchered brown bear bone, which had been stored in a cardboard box at the National Museum of Ireland for almost 100 years, has established that humans were on the island of Ireland some 12,500 years ago - 2,500 earlier than previously believed.
    http://irisharchaeology.ie/2016/03/n...-by-2500-years

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,381

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!



    Well, that is pretty amazing.

    I'm thinking it is just a little fragile, as proof, but very exciting all the same.

    A bear's knee bone, carbon dated at 12,500 years old, with knife marks in it. Just being the house sceptic - is it possible that the knife marks are not as old as the bone ? Or that the bone found is way into the box from somewhere other than the cave. It is more than 100 years since the box was made up.

    If this is right, though, now they will be looking for more evidence and will very likely find it.

    The cave is pretty cool.

    Ireland is still pretty young, at 12,500 years of human habitation, compared with Africa and Australia.

    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    637

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Was the ending of the last ice-age estimated at about 12,000 years ago?

    Is it possible that cave dwellers in West Clare may have lived thru some of the ice age?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,381

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    According to this, 15,000 years or thereabouts.

    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,819

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Although ice had started to retreat 15,000 years ago it was about 13,000 years ago when the climate started to improve rapidly. Then about 1000 years later, conditions became very cold again. This is known in Ireland as the Woodgrange interstadial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aller%C3%B8d_oscillation
    That cold phase lasted about another 800 years and from about 11,000 years ago you get the ending of the pleistocene proper, rapidly rising temperatures and the spread of woodland in Ireland.

    Could Neaderthals have made it to Ireland in previous inter-glacials? Remains have been found in Wales from 200,000 years ago!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,381

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    I saw another Ice Age map that showed Clare on the edge of the ice sheet. It may not have been the coldest spot.

    Where were the Welsh Neanderthals ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16,656

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    A bear's knee bone, carbon dated at 12,500 years old, with knife marks in it. Just being the house sceptic - is it possible that the knife marks are not as old as the bone ?
    The opinion of bone specialists as quoted in the article is that the cut marks were made on fresh bone.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Or that the bone found is way into the box from somewhere other than the cave. It is more than 100 years since the box was made up.
    As noted in the article the bone with the Knife marks was mentioned in the report of their investigations by the archeologists who discovered the cave.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16,656

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    A bear's knee bone, carbon dated at 12,500 years old, with knife marks in it. Just being the house sceptic - is it possible that the knife marks are not as old as the bone ?
    The opinion of bone specialists as quoted in the article is that the cut marks were made on fresh bone.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Or that the bone found is way into the box from somewhere other than the cave. It is more than 100 years since the box was made up.
    As noted in the article the bone with the Knife marks was mentioned in the report of their investigations by the archeologists who discovered the cave.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,819

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I saw another Ice Age map that showed Clare on the edge of the ice sheet. It may not have been the coldest spot.

    Where were the Welsh Neanderthals ?
    It is quite possible and it might explain why Burren has been called a refugia for arctic alpine species and also has plants from the Iberian peninsula.
    http://www.burrennationalpark.ie/wildlife.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanian_flora

    I'm not sure where the Neanderthals were. I'll look it up.

    Good reads on the above topics for anyone interested are Mitchell and Ryans, Reading the Irish Landscape and Pilcher and Hall's, Flora Hibernica.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    1,848

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post

    Where were the Welsh Neanderthals ?
    Ever seen their front row?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,880

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    I very much doubt if there ever were (non-rugby) neanderthals in Ireland.

    If there were, it would have to be 30,000 or more years ago.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,819

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    I very much doubt if there ever were (non-rugby) neanderthals in Ireland.

    If there were, it would have to be 30,000 or more years ago.
    They were in Wales before that

    The Bontnewydd Palaeolithic site at Denbighshire, North Wales is the most north-western site of Neanderthal remains and one of the oldest remains in Britain (230,000 years ago). It is estimated that the total Neanderthal population across this habitat range numbered at around 70,000 at its peak.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neande...itat_and_range

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,381

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    @eamo - lols ! @ Sam Lord - good point!
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Elsewhere
    Posts
    831

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    This is almost modern by comparison, and not even discovered in Ireland, but still, it was a good way to celebrate the thousand-year anniversary of the Battle of Clontarf:

    Archaeologists think that the Galloway hoard dates to the early 10th century, based on the style of the silver armbands and other objects in the trove. At the time, Viking forces had suffered a serious setback in Ireland, and local Galloway folklore "referred to a Viking army being defeated by a Scots army" at a Galloway locale, says Derek McLennan, the metal detectorist who discovered the hoard.

    Intrigued by this lore and other evidence, McLennan decided to carefully search for Viking traces. On September 1, 2014, while he was out with small group of associates, McLennan found a silver arm ring with a Viking design, a large silver cross, and two other artifacts. . . .

    The controlled archaeological excavation revealed not one treasure trove, but two. In the upper layer, the team excavated a gold, bird-shaped pin as well as 67 silver ingots and arm rings, many produced by metalworkers in Ireland. This portable silver served as ready cash in the Viking world: the elite hacked off pieces to buy cattle or other commodities, reward loyal followers, or "pay off the troops" in Viking mercenary armies, says Nicholson.

    Some three inches (eight centimeters) below that trove, Nicholson and his colleagues found a large, lidded metal vessel buried upside down, perhaps to keep out ground water. It turned out to be packed with treasures, many swathed in leather and fine textiles.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2...d-archaeology/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,381

    Default Re: Breakthroughs in Irish archaeology - At Last, We Have a Palaeolithic!

    If there were Neanderthal people in North Wales, not impossible that they made it to Ireland. The little teeth are here ---

    http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/article...ntnewydd-Cave/
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us