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Thread: Brexit.

  1. #1081
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Hard to see this working long-term

    A British guarantee to preserve free movement of all European Union citizens between Ireland and Britain has resulted in a significant breakthrough in the Irish strand of the Brexit negotiations.
    The commitment, the European Commission said on Thursday, was an important reassurance that would ensure that Ireland could continue to meet its EU treaty obligations to facilitate border-free travel of EU citizens.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...alks-1.3205341
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  2. #1082
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Northern Ireland Riddle | As part of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland, British nationals living there are also entitled to Irish (and by extension EU) citizenship — even if they’ve never set foot south of the border. Post-Brexit, that opens up a legal and political minefield.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  3. #1083
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    "A British guarantee to preserve free movement of all European Union citizens between Ireland and Britain"

    ?? So, what about immigration control then? Didn't the referendum result mean the Polish plumber will either be stopped, or better in some people's view, kicked out?

    Barnier said "On this subject [Ireland] – which I continue to follow personally, as all other areas – we made real progress on the question of the Common Travel Area, on the basis of guarantees by the United Kingdom, and we clarified, in a constructive manner, what remains to be done, particularly with regards to North-South cooperation in the Good Friday Agreement."

    Maybe a guarantee for those already on the island? The common travel area is an administrative convenience, created in the 1920s to avoid having to give the (newly created) Irish citizens in the UK a passport.

    The divil is in the detail "what remains to be done".....

  4. #1084
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    "A British guarantee to preserve free movement of all European Union citizens between Ireland and Britain"

    ?? So, what about immigration control then? Didn't the referendum result mean the Polish plumber will either be stopped, or better in some people's view, kicked out?

    Barnier said "On this subject [Ireland] – which I continue to follow personally, as all other areas – we made real progress on the question of the Common Travel Area, on the basis of guarantees by the United Kingdom, and we clarified, in a constructive manner, what remains to be done, particularly with regards to North-South cooperation in the Good Friday Agreement."

    Maybe a guarantee for those already on the island? The common travel area is an administrative convenience, created in the 1920s to avoid having to give the (newly created) Irish citizens in the UK a passport.

    The divil is in the detail "what remains to be done".....
    Free movement? If it's just the right of an EU citizen to travel in and out of the UK from the Republic, then there's no problem in that for the Brits because the Polish Plumber will have no right to work or social supports in the UK.

  5. #1085
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaadi View Post
    Free movement? If it's just the right of an EU citizen to travel in and out of the UK from the Republic, then there's no problem in that for the Brits because the Polish Plumber will have no right to work or social supports in the UK.
    So, no change then? Right to work and the like is unenforceable unless they check them at entry to the UK. and follow them up.

  6. #1086
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    So, no change then? Right to work and the like is unenforceable unless they check them at entry to the UK. and follow them up.
    I don't think so, to work officially in the UK or to claim Social benefits requires having a valid PPS number. After Brexit only UK and probably Irish Citizens will have a valid right to work and claim Social Benefits in the UK, anyone else from the EU entering the UK would be no more than a tourist.

    At the moment even within the EU, the UK has special immigration and emigration rights with the likes of the USA and Australia that don't extend to other EU citizens wishing to move to those countries. .

  7. #1087
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaadi View Post
    I don't think so, to work officially in the UK or to claim Social benefits requires having a valid PPS number. After Brexit only UK and probably Irish Citizens will have a valid right to work and claim Social Benefits in the UK, anyone else from the EU entering the UK would be no more than a tourist.
    Rumour has it that a significant number of the immigrants are on the black, every so often there are stories about gang masters....

    As I said, what you suggest is, in effect, no change, if you have whatever is needed to be legit, carry on. Still remains the question of how to, and at what cost, legitimise in the new incomers, and who will do it if they come in via the RoI.

  8. #1088
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Rumour has it that a significant number of the immigrants are on the black, every so often there are stories about gang masters....

    As I said, what you suggest is, in effect, no change, if you have whatever is needed to be legit, carry on. Still remains the question of how to, and at what cost, legitimise in the new incomers, and who will do it if they come in via the RoI.
    I'd call the particular proposal a sensible solution to a unique problem, much better than a rigid one size fits all type solution.

    To put the potential future EU sourced illegal worker threat to the UK via entry through Ireland into perspective. I'd point out that it's highly likely that EU citizens will be able to enter the UK as visitors anyway, so whether they get on a plane from Frankfurt or walk over the border from the ROI they'll still be coming to the UK without worker's rights and there's always the "security" option of interviewing suspected third party entrants to the UK as they move through ports and airports when they cross from the island of Ireland to Britain.

    Given that off the books illegal immigrant type workers get pathetic wages for their work then EU citizens will be better off taking up legal work in other EU states rather than going underground in the UK.

  9. #1089
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    I saw yesterday that Barnier said the UK had still to clarify aspects of the Good Friday agreement vis a vis Brexit. Wonder what does that mean? or is he just taking the rise out of Davies?

  10. #1090
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    I saw yesterday that Barnier said the UK had still to clarify aspects of the Good Friday agreement vis a vis Brexit. Wonder what does that mean? or is he just taking the rise out of Davies?
    Rubbing their nose in the fact that you can't square a circle.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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  11. #1091
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Widely leaked this a.m. -"not yet agreed" proposals for EU immigrants - including "cannot get in unless you have a job offer"

    OK,it is deliberate leak to test the waters, but what will be kept/dropped?

    The job offer requirement - what happens to someone entering via RoI?? Where will the check be implemented?

  12. #1092
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Summary of the Home Office policy paper, draft.

    https://euobserver.com/uk-referendum/138900

  13. #1093
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  14. #1094
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Wonder who is feeding the G? Could it be the DFA? It would be in their interest to get a bit more "say" than being one of 27?

    All in all, the two sets of leaks open several cans of worms. Today's one says there has to be a border, maybe a bit relaxed for schoolkids? Does that create an opportunity for scammers? The kids of those who might otherwise be might be banned going to school in NI??

    IMO, the most interesting bit is the EC saying the UK must set up the arrangements for the border. Given how scared we are of losing the cheap food market in UK, will we aid and abet them?

    We will live in interesting times.....

  15. #1095
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    The Brits not wanting to pay. The EU insisting they have to

    EU negotiators were said to have been left “flabbergasted” after British lawmakers told them there was little or no legal basis for their £90billion claim. A young civil servant reportedly left EU negotiators “open-mouthed” with a line-by-line “technical” demolition of the demand.

    Tory grandee John Redwood said last night that there was no legal basis for the demand. He also said Mr Davis had no right to authorise it without parliamentary approval.

    “Article 50 is clear,” he said. “Once a state leaves it has no further rights and benefits, and no further duties or obligations. It is of course true the treaty does not prevent the EU accepting a payment volunteered by a departing state if it wished to pay one. However, the UK could not make such a payment legally under our own law and system for controlling public spending.”

    The former Welsh secretary, who voted for Brexit, said ministers have “absolutely no authority to make one-off additional payments to the EU. The only way Mr. Davis could authorize a leaving payment would be to put through an Act of Parliament specifically authorizing such an ex gratia payment. I can’t see many Conservative MPs wanting to vote for that.”

    Eurosceptics on both sides of the house said MPs were likely to vote down any demand deemed “excessive” – even those who had voted Remain.

    Mr Rees-Mogg said: “Almost certainly there will have to be a vote. The money has to be voted through by Parliament and with MPs facing the fury of voters, it cannot be too much money.”
    Michel Barnier said he was “disappointed” by the UK position and publicly warned the British team it should go back to the drawing board after it presented a legal analysis arguing that Britain owed far less than the Commission believed.

    “So there’s a moral dilemma here: you can’t have 27 paying for what was decided by 28, so what was decided by 28 member states, that has to be borne out by 28 member states right up to the end, it’s as simple as that.

    The UK says it wants to go through the Brexit bill line-by-line to work out what it owes the EU, but the EU says spending commitments already agreed to during the current budget round should simply be honored.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...vorce-payments
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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