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Thread: Brexit.

  1. #1051
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Heard the fishermen's rep say that, while the decision will affect Irish boats, it is an indication of worse to come. If the Brits re-apply their 200 mile economic zone after brexit then large sections of our fishing will be buggered. Of course, the Brits will have to police their zone.....

  2. #1052
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Heard the fishermen's rep say that, while the decision will affect Irish boats, it is an indication of worse to come. If the Brits re-apply their 200 mile economic zone after brexit then large sections of our fishing will be buggered. Of course, the Brits will have to police their zone.....
    The Icelanders had what it took.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #1053
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    I heard an RTE news journalist express amazement at the idea (spelled out in an economic report) that Ireland would suffer more than the U.K. from Brexit.

    It seems very likely that the Irish establishment are as oblivious and as much in denial about the impacts on Ireland of Brexit as they were back in the 2000s of the impending property crash.

    Fine Gael will be happy to leave it all in the hands of Merkel and May - only problem being that Ireland is NOWHERE in their priorities. From today's IT.

    Britain’s Home Office, the government department responsible for border control and immigration, has admitted it has not consulted any external experts on the effect of Brexit on the Irish Border.
    The Border, and the wider implications for the Republic of Britain’s exit from the European Union, is one of the three points of negotiation between the EU and UK government (the others are free movement of people and the amount of money Britain will owe the union after the divorce).

    Each needs to be settled before the EU will entertain negotiating a trade deal with the UK outside the union.
    Despite the border being a key issue in negotiations, the Home Office has not sought any advice from experts on the potential impact of Brexit on Irish citizens living in Britain or Northern Ireland.
    The Home Office’s admission – made in response to a Freedom of Information Act request lodged by the investigative website theferret.scot – has been described as “shocking” by experts on both sides of the Border.

    SDLP leader Colum Eastwood accused the British government of “leaving us behind” and called on the Irish Government to “stand up” for the interests of northern nationalists.

    While the Border is one of the three main issues to be negotiated, both the British and Irish governments have insisted that the Common Travel Area will remain in place after Brexit and that disruption to Irish citizens will be minimal.

    But concerns have been raised that Brexit could throw up unexpected problems around the Border and the status of Irish citizens in Britain, particularly if the UK adopts a different immigration policy to the rest of the European Union. More than 380,000 Irish-born people live in Britain.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  4. #1054
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    It is remarkable how little has been said about what I think may be one of the most significant long term impacts of the Brexit vote, (regardless of whether Brexit actually goes ahead or not). I refer to Sinn Féin's complete change in attitude to the EU.

    http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...205#post466205
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  5. #1055
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Aha, Leo has been woken up, maybe. Somebody has realised what anybody who has ever worked with the EC/EU knows, everything is negotiable, i.e. a fudge can be found. The idea that the border would be the Irish Sea is typical.

    That way we and NI would be responsible, Rosslare and Larne will be EU frontier posts, in both directions. So, Leo says "no" but he has no part in the actual negotiations.

    Presumably the £1bn softens the cough of the DUP, who, otherwise, would never have agreed to share responsibility with us, especially on the issue of the border of the union....

  6. #1056
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Of course, the U.K. is proposing a customs border between the N. and S. of Ireland. Simultaneously, this racist anti-Irish rant was published in a little known backwoodsman. English journal - http://irishpost.co.uk/brexit-articl...-sparks-anger/


    The British government is this week expected to confirm that a customs Border between the North and the South is part of its proposals to leave the European Union.
    On Wednesday, the British government will publish a position paper on Brexit which, according to London and DUP sources, will call for the creation of a “light touch” Border between the Republic and Northern Ireland.

    While politicians in both Dublin and Belfast have warned against Brexit leading to a hard Border between the North and South, the position paper nonetheless is expected to state that a customs Border will be required after the UK exits the EU.
    The paper, however, according to sources, will seek to mitigate the impact of the Border by majoring on efforts to make the Border as “seamless and frictionless as possible”.

    This is expected to include proposals to have an “electronic border” where possible, to have spot checks of vehicles, to avail of number plate recognition technology and to also use CCTV cameras to try to monitor the movement of goods across the Border
    General denial still floats across the Irish landscape.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #1057
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Of course, the U.K. is proposing a customs border between the N. and S. of Ireland. Simultaneously, this racist anti-Irish rant was published in a little known backwoodsman. English journal - http://irishpost.co.uk/brexit-articl...-sparks-anger/



    General denial still floats across the Irish landscape.
    Our media is still very Dublin-centric. A few hundred bank or insurance workers are relocated to Dublin , cue smug self satisfaction. Property values will continue to soar , yippee. But what about our food exports? Or indeed tourism from the UK. Leo maybe thinks he can't finagle something. I doubt it. The EU is in no mood to help May out of her straight jacket.

  8. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Og View Post
    Our media is still very Dublin-centric. A few hundred bank or insurance workers are relocated to Dublin , cue smug self satisfaction. Property values will continue to soar , yippee. But what about our food exports? Or indeed tourism from the UK. Leo maybe thinks he can't finagle something. I doubt it. The EU is in no mood to help May out of her straight jacket.
    It's the unforeseens that get me. Ireland and the UK/Britain have had special customs arrangements and trade deals FOREVER until both countries went into the EU at the same time. All kinds of other binding agreements too. These issues were all submerged under joint EU membership and the assumption was a jolly forever after gradually "ever closer union" merger along with the rest of the EU. Now there will be a rupture of most of that. No one can possibly anticipate all of the problems that will arise. It is like trying to severe conjoined twins one of which will remain conjoined to a third party. The British and Irish economies are much more substantially and deeply linked that anyone seems to be prepared to admit, and Britain and the rest of the EU are demonstrably much, much more concerned about the impact on the wider EU/UK than Ireland which comes NOWHERE in their priorities. The UK had not even got anyone dealing with this last time I checked - not that any amount of dealing with it can remove the certainty of much disruption.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #1059
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    It's the unforeseens that get me. Ireland and the UK/Britain have had special customs arrangements and trade deals FOREVER until both countries went into the EU at the same time. All kinds of other binding agreements too. These issues were all submerged under joint EU membership and the assumption was a jolly forever after gradually "ever closer union" merger along with the rest of the EU. Now there will be a rupture of most of that. No one can possibly anticipate all of the problems that will arise. It is like trying to severe conjoined twins one of which will remain conjoined to a third party. The British and Irish economies are much more substantially and deeply linked that anyone seems to be prepared to admit, and Britain and the rest of the EU are demonstrably much, much more concerned about the impact on the wider EU/UK than Ireland which comes NOWHERE in their priorities. The UK had not even got anyone dealing with this last time I checked - not that any amount of dealing with it can remove the certainty of much disruption.
    It beggars belief that Britain has nobody tasked with the Ireland - UK side. Shades of 69 when Cabinet ministers had to speed read Irish history , having switched off in 1922. Likewise only Googling the DUP since they landed in coalition together with the loons. Ourselves , Denmark and Netherlands are the three worst affected EU members in any hard Brexit scenario. Perhaps we should act as a bloc?

  10. #1060
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Og View Post
    It beggars belief that Britain has nobody tasked with the Ireland - UK side. Shades of 69 when Cabinet ministers had to speed read Irish history , having switched off in 1922. Likewise only Googling the DUP since they landed in coalition together with the loons. Ourselves , Denmark and Netherlands are the three worst affected EU members in any hard Brexit scenario. Perhaps we should act as a bloc?
    A sensible and pragmatic idea...which therefore by virtue of that probably won't be pursued.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  11. #1061
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  12. #1062
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    As the G reports, a fantasy. As an opening gambit by the brits it is very weak. Dilute it, as will happen in negotiation, and you get what? It would appear, from the tone of the text, that there is no fallback position.

    As to the border question, my worry is, as it has been all along, that our lot will agree some fudge, since they have no fallback where we can say "OK, you are not in the EU so the general rules for non-EU trade will apply" The outcome might be we have to accept a general EU agreed solution, as part of the 27, not likely to be specifically favourable to us.

  13. #1063
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Politico has a good piece datelined "Clones" on border on issues that rings true for me from my time in Cavan in the 60's and 70's. Butter, tea and fireworks smuggling etc.

    http://www.politico.eu/article/brexi...eid=ffdd87b22c
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  14. #1064
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    More from Politico. Listen up.........


    We’ve just released episode 10 of POLITICO’s EU Confidential podcast. While regular host Ryan Heath recovers from his holiday jet lag, news editor Andrew Gray presents an interview with former Irish PM John Bruton on Brexit, a roundup of the latest on Britain’s departure from the EU, and discussion of stories from across the Continent.


    Listen immediately by clicking here, or download the podcast to listen offline via iTunes.


    We start with POLITICO’s Brexit editor James Randerson, who brings us up to date on the flurry of Brexit position papers released by the U.K. government as well as the EU’s official reaction — and what it really thinks.


    Bruton, the former Irish prime minister who later served as the EU’s ambassador to Washington, tells us what Brexit will mean for Ireland, why Britain may decide its vision of life outside the EU isn’t achievable and how the rest of the European Union will fare when the negotiating gets tough.


    In our “EU WTF” feature, Playbook’s Harry Cooper and POLITICO tech reporter Joanna Plucinska discuss Donald Trump’s Scottish tax break, Cambridge University Press’s Chinese challenge and a big rise in popularity for the EU.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  15. #1065
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Aha, Leo has been woken up, maybe. Somebody has realised what anybody who has ever worked with the EC/EU knows, everything is negotiable, i.e. a fudge can be found. The idea that the border would be the Irish Sea is typical.

    That way we and NI would be responsible, Rosslare and Larne will be EU frontier posts, in both directions. So, Leo says "no" but he has no part in the actual negotiations.

    Presumably the £1bn softens the cough of the DUP, who, otherwise, would never have agreed to share responsibility with us, especially on the issue of the border of the union....
    Everything is negotiable except the Irish people paying 42% of the EU's Banking debt in the aftermath of 2008-2010. That's a permanent fudge.

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