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Thread: Brexit.

  1. #1501
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Yesterday's vote is meaningless - it'll go to the HoL and they'll probably delete the amendment. In fact this is probably exactly what May wants them to do. She's just stringing along the DUPes and the Mogglodytes until they burn themselves out with tantrums and show themselves even to the bulk of Tory voters as unreasonable incompetent extremists.

    This was always going to end up with the border in the Irish Sea. It's the only remotely workable solution and everyone sane involved knows it. This is all just theatre, managing the demented far-right fringe until the deal is done.

    Rees-Mogg and his motley gang of loons won't be permitted to block that deal either. A way will be found for a sufficient amount of Lab, LibDem and SNP votes to counter the Mogg/DUP bloc and push the final deal through the HoC in the end.
    Ahah, all is not as it seems. It seems that if a Brexit deal is done and it is then ratified in the UK Parliament that it supersede the votes from the other night.

    Labour will have to be onboard for May to get such a Brexit deal through the house.

  2. #1502
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaadi View Post
    Ahah, all is not as it seems. It seems that if a Brexit deal is done and it is then ratified in the UK Parliament that it supersede the votes from the other night.

    Labour will have to be onboard for May to get such a Brexit deal through the house.
    Oh they will be. Of course it'll all be dressed up as ridiculous drama and fevered speculation about a MASSIVE REVOLT AGAINST CORBYN, LABOUR IN CRISIS and all that palaver. Entertains the plebs, innit.

    But behind closed doors MPs in all parties will know it's just theatre and with a nod and a wink Corbyn will play his allotted part and act all distraught at this terrible betrayal of the Party by 80 or so Labour "rebels" voting with the Tories on Brexit blah blah blah. And afterwards none of the "rebels" will be disciplined at all, because those on the inside will know that in reality they did exactly what Corbyn actually wanted them to do.

    We can have some fun re-visiting this post around March 2019 to see how right (or wrong ) I am about this

  3. #1503
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Oh they will be. Of course it'll all be dressed up as ridiculous drama and fevered speculation about a MASSIVE REVOLT AGAINST CORBYN, LABOUR IN CRISIS and all that palaver. Entertains the plebs, innit.

    But behind closed doors MPs in all parties will know it's just theatre and with a nod and a wink Corbyn will play his allotted part and act all distraught at this terrible betrayal of the Party by 80 or so Labour "rebels" voting with the Tories on Brexit blah blah blah. And afterwards none of the "rebels" will be disciplined at all, because those on the inside will know that in reality they did exactly what Corbyn actually wanted them to do.

    We can have some fun re-visiting this post around March 2019 to see how right (or wrong ) I am about this
    The ultimate fudge, that will probably be outcome of whatever is "agreed" in Brussels and voted on as described in the post.

    Problem is when will the UK actually leave? 29 March 2019 is only the beginning.

  4. #1504
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    The ultimate fudge, that will probably be outcome of whatever is "agreed" in Brussels and voted on as described in the post.

    Problem is when will the UK actually leave? 29 March 2019 is only the beginning.
    yerman i work for says end of the day they wont go atall.....

  5. #1505
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    And who do you work for that knows that? There are many Tories who would rather destroy the British and Irish economies and their own political party than back down now, maybe not a majority of them, but enough of them to make sure May cannot get anything remotely doable or legal or sane through. Leadership contests may not automatically remove Tory leaders but leaving the intelligent and recognisably human John Major aside, going way back in history they do tend to mean the collapse of the govt. or a replacement of PM. We could easily end up with something far worse if anyone hops on the bandwagon then and takes the reins, and refuses to call an election and rams no-deal through.

    Also Dedogs is it too much to ask that we write properly on here(at least legibly) and actually explain our points rather than one line TheJournal.ie type comments that don't mean anything at all? You sound like the fella that used to sell The Herald underneath the Eason's clock at times.
    Last edited by Apjp; 22-07-2018 at 12:05 AM.

  6. #1506
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Oh they will be. Of course it'll all be dressed up as ridiculous drama and fevered speculation about a MASSIVE REVOLT AGAINST CORBYN, LABOUR IN CRISIS and all that palaver. Entertains the plebs, innit.

    But behind closed doors MPs in all parties will know it's just theatre and with a nod and a wink Corbyn will play his allotted part and act all distraught at this terrible betrayal of the Party by 80 or so Labour "rebels" voting with the Tories on Brexit blah blah blah. And afterwards none of the "rebels" will be disciplined at all, because those on the inside will know that in reality they did exactly what Corbyn actually wanted them to do.

    We can have some fun re-visiting this post around March 2019 to see how right (or wrong ) I am about this
    I don't think that's going to happen. May is a complete hostage now and supporting anything she offers up is political suicide for anyone who was elected by a largely remain or reluctant/soft leave voter base, which makes up the bulk of most parties. She might get 5-10 MPS from elsewhere supporting her, but no way will they line out in the numbers you describe. I'll happily bring the Harp down to NZ for you if you are right on that.

  7. #1507
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    I don't think that's going to happen. May is a complete hostage now and supporting anything she offers up is political suicide for anyone who was elected by a largely remain or reluctant/soft leave voter base, which makes up the bulk of most parties. She might get 5-10 MPS from elsewhere supporting her, but no way will they line out in the numbers you describe. I'll happily bring the Harp down to NZ for you if you are right on that.
    I dunno, I think it's clear that Corbyn himself is a Brexiteer, as are large numbers of Labour MPs from northern England. But this is what I think will happen IF they are serious about actually leaving the EU.

    On the other hand when you look at ancillary matters like security & intelligence sharing, the Galileo project, the airspace agreement, travel health insurance, recognition of driving licences and a dozen other areas....none of these will be part of the Withdrawal Agreement. They are additional matters the UK has to tidy up.

    Yet two years after the vote, the UK hasn't made the slightest effort to do anything at all about these various housekeeping matters. If they were actually serious about leaving they'd have been working their way through these and ticking them off the list. That's what any sane responsible government would be doing. But the UK....aren't only refusing to do anything about these matters, they react with outraged aggrieved fury whenever anybody points out "eh you need to get the finger out on this lads, clock is ticking"

    It's almost as if, in their heads, this is all just a massive bluff and they have no actual intention of leaving at all. They are just throwing shapes, and expecting if they just run down the clock they will get to have their cake and eat it after all. Whether because they think the EU is weak, or because they are so convinced of their own exceptionalism that they think the EU will do anything to keep them in the club.

    If that is actually what is going on in their heads, then it's time to turf them out with no deal, let their economy collapse, then haul them before the WTO for multiple breaches of global trading rules. And put the border in the Irish Sea anyway no matter how much they stamp their little feet. It'll be better in the long run to lance this British boil of post-Imperial infantilism, even if it causes a fair amount of cost and disruption in the short term.

  8. #1508
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    And who do you work for that knows that? There are many Tories who would rather destroy the British and Irish economies and their own political party than back down now, maybe not a majority of them, but enough of them to make sure May cannot get anything remotely doable or legal or sane through. Leadership contests may not automatically remove Tory leaders but leaving the intelligent and recognisably human John Major aside, going way back in history they do tend to mean the collapse of the govt. or a replacement of PM. We could easily end up with something far worse if anyone hops on the bandwagon then and takes the reins, and refuses to call an election and rams no-deal through.

    Also Dedogs is it too much to ask that we write properly on here(at least legibly) and actually explain our points rather than one line TheJournal.ie type comments that don't mean anything at all? You sound like the fella that used to sell The Herald underneath the Eason's clock at times.
    sorry mate only im not givin out my info like that did you ever hear about identity theft atall???? alls ill say is hes some detail,,,, started out as a diesel fitter and done fierce well for himself.... id say if he stepped on a dog ***** hed find a way of makin money out of it.... he reckons the brits were totally mad to go for brexit and theyll get sense before its too late....

  9. #1509
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    I dunno, I think it's clear that Corbyn himself is a Brexiteer, as are large numbers of Labour MPs from northern England. But this is what I think will happen IF they are serious about actually leaving the EU.

    On the other hand when you look at ancillary matters like security & intelligence sharing, the Galileo project, the airspace agreement, travel health insurance, recognition of driving licences and a dozen other areas....none of these will be part of the Withdrawal Agreement. They are additional matters the UK has to tidy up.

    Yet two years after the vote, the UK hasn't made the slightest effort to do anything at all about these various housekeeping matters. If they were actually serious about leaving they'd have been working their way through these and ticking them off the list. That's what any sane responsible government would be doing. But the UK....aren't only refusing to do anything about these matters, they react with outraged aggrieved fury whenever anybody points out "eh you need to get the finger out on this lads, clock is ticking"

    It's almost as if, in their heads, this is all just a massive bluff and they have no actual intention of leaving at all. They are just throwing shapes, and expecting if they just run down the clock they will get to have their cake and eat it after all. Whether because they think the EU is weak, or because they are so convinced of their own exceptionalism that they think the EU will do anything to keep them in the club.

    If that is actually what is going on in their heads, then it's time to turf them out with no deal, let their economy collapse, then haul them before the WTO for multiple breaches of global trading rules. And put the border in the Irish Sea anyway no matter how much they stamp their little feet. It'll be better in the long run to lance this British boil of post-Imperial infantilism, even if it causes a fair amount of cost and disruption in the short term.
    What I can't quite get my head around is why no organisation in the UK seems to have a grip on Brexit. In the ROI we expect the Yes Minister Civil-Service and Multinationals+ the Agricultural sector will all be working behind the scenes to make Brexit as least damaging as possible to the Economy.

    In the UK the political class and media are blithely dithering and bluffing as if Brexit is just a theoretical exercise with no consequences. What's the huge powerbase of The City Of London Financial Centre at?

    Fleet Street is more in control of the UK than Downing Street is...

    What's next, Gunboat Diplomacy? A new version of The Cod Wars with the UK threatening to arrest or sink any boats that enter their waters. Air exclusion zones, there's no end to the potential madness of Tabloid Britain.

  10. #1510
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    ..................................

    Also Dedogs is it too much to ask that we write properly on here(at least legibly) and actually explain our points rather than one line TheJournal.ie type comments that don't mean anything at all? You sound like the fella that used to sell The Herald underneath the Eason's clock at times.
    I think there should be room for different, and sometimes very different (eg interactive) posting styles on here just so long as they are not insulting.............. and yer man selling the papers was a real person doing a real job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaadi View Post
    ............................................

    Fleet Street is more in control of the UK than Downing Street is...

    What's next, Gunboat Diplomacy? A new version of The Cod Wars with the UK threatening to arrest or sink any boats that enter their waters. Air exclusion zones, there's no end to the potential madness of Tabloid Britain.
    I have observed (at least I think I have observed) that there seems to be more people who fall into extreme camps of educated (both formal and informal), thoughtful, and enlightened verses completely ignorant and know nothing types from both England and Scotland than from here.
    Here and Wales there seems to be many more people who are interested and informed about the world and can hold an intelligent conversation, but not as many extreme know-nothing, don't care types. On the other extreme there seems to me to be more English people (still wondering about Scottish folk) who would amaze you with their dept of knowledge and thoughtfulness, and I am talking about farmers taxi-drivers (naturally) or ex-solders as well as high flying people who are still full of questions.

    It is not a class thing, more a function of what people read and watch. If people abandon themselves to only reading THE SUN and watching east-fucken-enders where afaics (get that? As Far As I Can See, saves a lot of time and effort and letters to use those abbreviations. Going to do that more often, saves time and effort so it does it does it does. Conserve the Internet!) everyone is miserable, or only reading the Guardian well then they ain't going to be well informed or challenged.

    Well that is my story and I am stickin to it. I suppose it is a round about way of saying we all have our own posting styles and the British Tabloids are rubbish and a lot of English, and I suppose some Scottish, and MOST Welsh people are just grand so they are.

    And generalizations are all the rage.

  11. #1511
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Brexit Bombshell: All Northern Ireland people would be better off in a new united Ireland says new report


    https://davidhencke.com/2018/07/26/b...ys-new-report/
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  12. #1512

    Default Re: Brexit.

    Leo the Brussels poodle

    His Brexitphobia — his weird determination to scupper the UK’s exit from the EU — is draining Ireland of its best *qualities. It has made this nation, known for its rebellious spirit, into the pathetic patsy of the Brussels oligarchy.

    This land of rebel hearts and independent minds now does the bidding of EU suits hell-bent on punishing Britain with a bad Brexit deal.

    With Varadkar at the helm, like the school dweeb sucking up to the bullies in order to protect his own hide, Ireland now plays the role of cheerleader to Brussels’ imperious sneering at Britain.

    What a tragic fall: From a plucky nation celebrated for its unruly streak to the sad bag-carrier for the Brussels machine. Well done, Leo.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/686610...er-for-eu/amp/

  13. #1513
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by flavirostris View Post
    Leo the Brussels poodle
    p.ie's servers down again, eh.

    One good thing about Brexit is how it has finally forced all the snivelling sneaking-regarder Fifth Columnist West Brits into the open. Yer now openly declaring yourselves as wannabe-British loons, who see Brexit as an opportunity to reverse Independence and return Ireland to its "rightful" place as an impoverished province of Greater Britain.

    Meanwhile over in the really real world, even Pistol Pete is grudgingly accepting that the game is up for Unionism.

    You people are demented fantasists, living in an imaginary version of the 1880s. Just how warped do you have to be in your alienation from Irish society and culture to be spouting this sort of gibberish?
    Last edited by Sidewinder; 28-07-2018 at 10:17 AM.

  14. #1514
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Very extremist stuff, all around, including on here.

    IMO, the game has changed all right. Coveney has finally realised that the 26 are no longer on our side, unconditionally. Ergo, we need to count those we can trust. Leo and a few others are on the road, looking for a line of approach they might use and which might work. Meanwhile Coveney is wandering around London, saying the. whatever it is called, intergovernmental whatsit, is meeting. Didn't see any results, did you?

    In Brussels, according to my spies on the ground, the individual items on the brexit agenda are being rated as to their overall effect. For example, car insurance, citizens rights, brits in Spain, and the like, looking for solutions after March next year. The difficult ones, money, tariffs, WTO, free movement, etc., etc., are being classified as how to how long the interim period will be until an acceptable fudge is in place. The UK will "leave" in March, on paper. We will have put in place a "team" of customs and immigration people, to look like we are implementing EU rules without having a border on the island (or the islands, depending on how it can be fudged). In the period, up to 202x, there will be fixes as the issues arise.

    That way, as May keeps saying, we will have delivered the will of the people as voted in 2016. and might even try an election....

  15. #1515
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    Default Re: Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    p.ie's servers down again, eh.

    One good thing about Brexit is how it has finally forced all the snivelling sneaking-regarder Fifth Columnist West Brits into the open. Yer now openly declaring yourselves as wannabe-British loons, who see Brexit as an opportunity to reverse Independence and return Ireland to its "rightful" place as an impoverished province of Greater Britain.

    Meanwhile over in the really real world, even Pistol Pete is grudgingly accepting that the game is up for Unionism.

    You people are demented fantasists, living in an imaginary version of the 1880s. Just how warped do you have to be in your alienation from Irish society and culture to be spouting this sort of gibberish?
    Hilarious stuff from the Sun. "a plucky nation". Can you imagine the editorial from the same paper anytime that "plucky nation" attempted to assert its sovereignty over the past century.

    "Imperious sneering" 😂 The country that mastered imperious sneering and now their throwing a tantrum.

    Like you I'm delighted in some ways as it's brought to the fore the snivlers as you say but also it's the beginning of the end for the union of kingdoms. Finally!

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