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Thread: The murderer in the Kremlin

  1. #31
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Good of you to join us here, Sam... already applying your preferred tactics of derailing a thread you have nothing of substance to contribute to?

    Feel free to start a thread about Castro assassinations. But last time I checked the Cuban dictator was still alive which can't be said of Alexander Litvinenko.
    So if you murder someone it's terrible but if you try to murder someone (hundreds of times) but fail it's okay? I don't get your distinction really. And I'm pretty sure if I take a shot a someone in the streets and miss the State authorities aren't going to say, "No problem, nothing to worry about ... no one was actually harmed."

    And I'm not derailing. My contribution of substance is to point out the hypocrisy of the Brits in banging on about a supposed assassination by the Russians when their best friends the Yanks do this all the time .... hell, the Brits even do it themselves.

    If someone who is a notorious wife beater makes a big song and dance about someone else beating their wife then I think I have every right to say, "Hang one just one minute...." without being accused of being off topic. It's actually quite pertinent.

    What about assassination attempts by the CIA, acting on presidential orders? We could start with the bid on Chou en Lai's life after the Bandung Conference in 1954; they blew up the plane scheduled to take him home, but fortunately he'd switched flights.

    Then we could move on to the efforts, ultimately successful in 1961, to kill the Congo's Patrice Lumumba, in which the CIA was intimately involved, dispatching among others the late Dr Sidney Gottlieb, the agency's in-house killer chemist, with a hypodermic loaded with poison.

    The agency made many efforts to kill General Kassem in Iraq. The first such attempt, on October 7, 1959, was botched badly, and one of the assassins, Saddam Husssein, was, spirited out to an agency apartment in Cairo. There was a second agency effort in 1960-1961 with a poisoned handkerchief. Finally they shot Kassim in the coup of February 8/9, 1963.

    The Kennedy years saw deep US implication in the murder of the Diem brothers in Vietnam and the first of many well attested efforts by the agency to assassinate Fidel Castro. Reagan's first year in office saw the inconvenient Omar Torrijos of Panama downed in an air crash. In 1986 came the Reagan White House's effort to bomb Muammar Gaddafi to death in his encampment in 1986, though this enterprise was conducted by the US Air Force.

    Led by that man of darkness, William Casey, in 1985 the CIA tried to kill the Lebanese Shia leader Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah by setting off a car bomb outside his mosque. He survived, though 80 others were blown to pieces.

    In his book Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, Bill Blum has a long and interesting list starting in 1949 with Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader, going on to efforts to kill Sukarno, Kim Il Sung, Mossadegh, Nehru, Nasser, Sihanouk, Jose Figueres, 'Papa Doc' Duvalier, Gen Rafael Trujillo, Charles de Gaulle, Salvador Allende, Michael Manley, Ayatollah Khomeini, the nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate, Mohamed Farah Aideed, prominent clan leader of Somalia, Slobodan Milosevic...

    And we should not forget that the CIA is by no means the only player in the assassination game. The military have their own teams. A friend of mine had a gardener – "a very scary looking guy" - who remarked that he'd been part of a secret unit in the US Marine Corps, murdering targets in the Caribbean.

    In sum, assassination has always been an arm of US foreign policy, just as in periods of turbulence, as in the Sixties, it has been an arm of domestic policy as well. This is true before and after the issuing in 1976 of Executive Order 11905 by President Gerald Ford, banning assassinations. "No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination," it states.
    http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/21...assassinations
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  2. #32
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    As I said, if you want to start a thread about CIA assassination (attempts), be my guest.

    This is about Puting having revived SMERSH to dispense his own brand of justice.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    As I said, if you want to start a thread about CIA assassination (attempts), be my guest.

    This is about Puting having revived SMERSH to dispense his own brand of justice.
    No this thread is about the Brits claiming that he did so ...
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  4. #34
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    An independent public inquiry chaired by a High Court judge.

    Besides, Litvinenko is only one of many critics of the Russian dictator who met with an untimely end.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    warrant for arrest?

    of whom?
    Anyone suspected of a crime. Laugh that off.
    Happiness is an inside job.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post

    And I'm not derailing. My contribution of substance is to point out the hypocrisy of the Brits in banging on about a supposed assassination by the Russians when their best friends the Yanks do this all the time .... hell, the Brits even do it themselves.
    pois ...

    except they may be little more sophisticated than the russians

  7. #37
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    Anyone suspected of a crime. Laugh that off.


    hmmm ... what about the african genocidal maniacs they offer asylum ? those too ??

    (.. whataboutery... all right )

  8. #38
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    True enough.

    But here we have a judge heading a public inquiry implying that a head of state has personally ordered a murder. As Theresa May, the British Home Secretary, put it, "An unparalleled act of state-sponsored terrorism". (Maybe not so unparalleled when you think of Trotsky)
    David Kelly, anyone?
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

  9. #39
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post


    hmmm ... what about the african genocidal maniacs they offer asylum ? those too ??

    (.. whataboutery... all right )
    Yeah, or George Bush and Obama. The ''whataboutery'' originates with you.
    Happiness is an inside job.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    David Kelly, anyone?
    Kelly case smelled of British intelligence at work, which one M15 or M16?

    Read a book on George Blake M16 traitor as it was interesting cos it was the Americans who changed his view. Thus his change of heart which led him to join KGB now FSB.

    Nowadays British or American or Russia intelligence do their own dirty work, which cancel itself out.

    However the interesting piece was that the man who was murdered, he used to work for his ex boss Putin. But that isn't the whole story. Something is missing re jigsaw puzzle.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by disability student View Post
    Kelly case smelled of British intelligence at work, which one M15 or M16?

    However the interesting piece was that the man who was murdered, he used to work for his ex boss Putin. But that isn't the whole story. Something is missing re jigsaw puzzle.
    Well, indeed. Kelly wasn't the only case of interest either. There was that guy who was found dead in his flat, zipped into a bag, who had previously worked for one of the MIs; Gareth something or other? Humphries??

    Of course that was a suicide too....

    Litvinenko's brother seemed to suspect MI6 but I doubt that, given that the main suspects were polonium contaminated and are now back in Russia....
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

  12. #42
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Old habits die hard... Performance artist and Putin critic Petr Pavlensky has been transferred from prison to a mental institution.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Old habits die hard... Performance artist and Putin critic Petr Pavlensky has been transferred from prison to a mental institution.
    Well, after cutting off an ear, nailing his testicles to Red Square, and setting a public building on fire there may be some logic to this decision. It would probably get you into a mental institution in Ireland as well ...
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  14. #44
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    a public building
    You know damn well it wasn't just any public building... the Lubyanka is the symbol of barbaric Russian state terror, ever since the Commies seized power.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: The murderer in the Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    You know damn well it wasn't just any public building... the Lubyanka is the symbol of barbaric Russian state terror, ever since the Commies seized power.
    ^ Ah jeez he's off his pills again.

    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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