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Thread: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

  1. #16
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Do you think Corbyn can win an election for Labour?
    I don't know Pluralist.

    Britain ain't really a democracy is it.

    He would need to convince them to coalesce with others and even then they might not have the numbers due to the undemocratic system itself.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Do you think Corbyn can win an election for Labour?
    Leaders don't win elections.

    Put not your trust in princes.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    I don't know Pluralist.

    Britain ain't really a democracy is it.

    He would need to convince them to coalesce with others and even then they might not have the numbers due to the undemocratic system itself.
    Point taken re Britain's lamentably poor electoral system, but bear in mind that the most likely scenario if we were to back-test a hypothetical proportional representation system onto the general election results would have been not a Conservative majority but a Tory/UKIP coalition with a slim majority over a Labour/SNP led opposition. So, really not all that far from what they have currently, except an even more right wing government (although, granted, in this alternative universe scenario, UKIP being in government might bring Labour to their senses).
    Last edited by pluralist; 22-07-2015 at 02:34 PM.

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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Do you think Corbyn can win an election for Labour?
    Do you think waxwork-dummy shallow spin-merchants like Burnham, Cooper or Kendall, pushing wishy-washy Tory-lite policies, could possibly win an election? Voters are repelled by that nonsense now. The True Believer wingnut voter will always vote for the real deal rather than a pale imitiation; but the wingnut voter is and has always been a minority. They only win because their toxic endless lying and demonisation rhetoric enfeebles the hand-wringing soft left, and disengages huge numbers of the electorate - which is of course exactly what they want.

    If you can convince 40% of the voters to stay at home disillusioned, turned off, repelled, despairing of change; and another 30% to half-heartedly vote for parties that have been bullied into offering nothing but WingNut-lite policies....then you always win.

    It's fiendishly simple, and very effective. And the appropriate response is equally simple - but first you have to stop playing their game, stop making excuses for them, stop cuddling up to them, stop pretending there is any sort of "bipartisanship" on offer, stop pretending their insane policies can be modified through "constructive dialogue", stop allowing them to lie lie lie and lie again, setting the narrative and agenda based on endless lies, stop allowing their narrative to go unchallenged, stop bowing to their tabloid infantile distraction and derailment tactics, and stop pretending that these people are anything but psychopaths and sociopaths who want to watch the world burn.

    We've had decades of these WingNut lunatics now, wrecking the economies of numerous nations and making the lives of millions an utter misery, and people still don't grasp their (rather obvious) playbook.

    The exact same people now that solemnly swore the SNP would never win more than 20 seats in Scotland are the same people lining up now to solemnly proclaim that only by making a fake Tory-lite waxwork dummy the Labour leader, can Labour win against the Tories. It's so disconnected from reality it's hard to know where to begin.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Point taken re Britain's lamentably poor electoral system, but bear in mind that the most likely scenario if we were to back-test a hypothetical proportional representation system onto the general election results would have been not a Conservative majority but a Tory/UKIP coalition with a slim majority over a Labour/SNP led opposition. So, really not all that far from what they have currently, except an even more right wing government (although, granted, in this alternative universe scenario, UKIP being in government might bring Labour to their senses).
    Yeah but they'd have about 5-6 less seats and an even slimmer majority.

    You can't deny people representation because they're stupid.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Do you think waxwork-dummy shallow spin-merchants like Burnham, Cooper or Kendall, pushing wishy-washy Tory-lite policies, could possibly win an election? Voters are repelled by that nonsense now. The True Believer wingnut voter will always vote for the real deal rather than a pale imitiation; but the wingnut voter is and has always been a minority. They only win because their toxic endless lying and demonisation rhetoric enfeebles the hand-wringing soft left, and disengages huge numbers of the electorate - which is of course exactly what they want.

    If you can convince 40% of the voters to stay at home disillusioned, turned off, repelled, despairing of change; and another 30% to half-heartedly vote for parties that have been bullied into offering nothing but WingNut-lite policies....then you always win.

    It's fiendishly simple, and very effective. And the appropriate response is equally simple - but first you have to stop playing their game, stop making excuses for them, stop cuddling up to them, stop pretending there is any sort of "bipartisanship" on offer, stop pretending their insane policies can be modified through "constructive dialogue", stop allowing them to lie lie lie and lie again, setting the narrative and agenda based on endless lies, stop allowing their narrative to go unchallenged, stop bowing to their tabloid infantile distraction and derailment tactics, and stop pretending that these people are anything but psychopaths and sociopaths who want to watch the world burn.

    We've had decades of these WingNut lunatics now, wrecking the economies of numerous nations and making the lives of millions an utter misery, and people still don't grasp their (rather obvious) playbook.

    The exact same people now that solemnly swore the SNP would never win more than 20 seats in Scotland are the same people lining up now to solemnly proclaim that only by making a fake Tory-lite waxwork dummy the Labour leader, can Labour win against the Tories. It's so disconnected from reality it's hard to know where to begin.
    Don't you think you're a bit old for the angry young man stuff?

  7. #22
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    If you're not angry you're not going to change anything.

    Are you of the 'Centre' Pluralist?

  8. #23
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    If you're not angry you're not going to change anything.

    Are you of the 'Centre' Pluralist?
    "Are you of the 'Centre' Pluralist?"

    Yes I think I probably am. Centre right on a few issues. Liz Kendall, I feel, had a point about Labour being misguided in recognising the Palestinian state. I don't fully agree with her, but it was a brave stance to take in the current environment.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    It always amuses me just how woefuly ignorant of the reality around them people are. How the meme in the UK is that the Tories are unassailable.

    There was just 6.5% difference between the Tories and Labour this time. Yet that's supposed to be an unbridgeable gap, nonsensical defeatist bull crap.

    If you look at the stupid looking and offputting head of Milliband, that aesthetic physical and mental of Milliband as a Wally ( regardless of his actual ability ) cost Labour 3-4% in the GE. The man was scarily deficient in the Charisma stakes, an electoral liability of huge proportions.

    Blair's Labour are the evil twin of the Tories. Tories in Social Democrat clothing. You can see by the Labour leadership's support for the nasty welfare reforms that Blairite Labour is Tory in all but name. It's still not as bad as Toryism but it's just in the least bad option stakes and not really winning there, Blairite Labour are just a more ruthless version of the Liberals.

    It's profoundly depressing that those careerist scum have removed the interests of the C2de class from the Labour parties agenda.

    FF/FG/Lab = Conservative/Labour/Liberal = illusion of choice and no hope for the C2de class for many years to come in the middle of a huge long term reduction of the welfare state.

    The English electorate are profoundly brainwashed, they were even stupid enough to reject AV in the referendum.

    Easily manipulated and with no effective choice they are living in a Democratic deficit that they've been programmed to believe is the greatest Democracy in the world.

    *sigh*

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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    "Are you of the 'Centre' Pluralist?"

    Yes I think I probably am. Centre right on a few issues. Liz Kendall, I feel, had a point about Labour being misguided in recognising the Palestinian state. I don't fully agree with her, but it was a brave stance to take in the current environment.
    You don't think Palestine should be recognised but you call yourself "of the center".

    See this is my point. You are obviously very firmly on what would 30 years ago have been decidedly far-right politics. The right-wing media and politicians have now dragged the agenda so far into what was extremist politics in the 1980s that you can consider yourself "centrist".

    You aren't. Really.

    Take this, more hysteria from the WingNut media in Britain today:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10406317.html

    This is actually unintentionally hilarious - clearly the writer thinks all these are BAD SCARY things. BAD SCARY things like errr.....stopping illegal wars, not blowing up the planet with nukes, getting the participants in a conflict together to talk it out instead of just bombing them, protecting the NHS and rolling back some of the disastrous previous privatisations of critical networks, investing in education and infrastructure while, ya know, not letting the rich get away with not paying anything, stopping wasting billions on corporate welfare for croney industries....jaysus sure all that sounds awful altogether. What an 'orrible little beardy man he is, eh?

    Like the SNP in Scotland who are regularly portrayed as some sort of howling Marxists, all Corbyn is actually offering is relatively mild centre-to-centre-left social democracy that would not look out of place or at all remarkable in most of continental Europe. It is only in the Anglosphere where politics have been polluted for 30 years or more by howlingly-insane ultra-far-right extremists that this mildly progressive centrism is seen as a threat to civilisation itself and "far-left madness".

    And as for your snide eejitry earlier....I'd rather still have the capacity for anger at corruption and exploitation, than to be a dead-eyed amoral willing enabler of oppression.

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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    And as for your snide eejitry earlier....I'd rather still have the capacity for anger at corruption and exploitation, than to be a dead-eyed amoral willing enabler of oppression.
    I wasn't aware that these are the only choices.

    I think this is mainly a conversation you are having with yourself though, so I'll back out, as you seem to be slightly unhinged.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    You aren't actually having a conversation though are you, yer just sniping, at either me or at an imaginary version of Corbyn. I don't think you've actually made any sort of point in the entire thread.

    As to the real Corbyn this profile piece was very interesting

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...nt-do-personal

    This is a man who actually spent 2 years on a VSO in Jamaica, and who was on the right side of a huge range of issues from Pinochet and Apartheid to Iraq to our own Birmingham Six, Guildford Four and the need to actually talk to Sinn Fein - and I often get the impression that a lot of the commentariat are still fighting that particular battle well over 20 years later - to today's battles like increasing inequality, the TTIP and climate change. Oh, and he's a republican who once called for the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas to be turfed out of Buck House into a "more modest dwelling" Not a trough-snouter who claims very modest expenses, not in it for ego or self-aggrandisement, someone who genuinely cares about a decent, peaceful society.

    But to listen to the WingNut press you'd think the man was a raving lunatic with bizarre and insane notions...when it is actually WingNut policies that have repeatedly failed, in country after country, for decade after decade. A certain quote from Einstein springs to mind.

    It's also interesting that the deputy position looks to be going to Tom Watson. Ya know, they guy that has kept niggling away at the peados-in-high-places scandal, the guy who exposed the NOTW phone hacking scandal, the guy who compared Murdoch to a mafia boss, and who opposed the Digital Economy Act.

    Corbyn and Watson together could be an extremely effective team in going on the attack against the lunatic neo-liberal orthodoxy.

    Finally riddle me this: if Corbyn is such a loony who will inevitably make millions of voters desert Labour and who will 100% guarantee massive Tory victories for 20 years to come.....why are the entirety of the right-wing media and politicians in such obvious outright panic over today's poll?
    Last edited by Sidewinder; 22-07-2015 at 05:16 PM.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    You aren't actually having a conversation though are you, yer just sniping, at either me or at an imaginary version of Corbyn. I don't think you've actually made any sort of point in the entire thread.

    As to the real Corbyn this profile piece was very interesting

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...nt-do-personal

    This is a man who actually spent 2 years on a VSO in Jamaica, and who was on the right side of a huge range of issues from Pinochet and Apartheid to Iraq to our own Birmingham Six, Guildford Four and the need to actually talk to Sinn Fein - and I often get the impression that a lot of the commentariat are still fighting that particular battle well over 20 years later - to today's battles like increasing inequality, the TTIP and climate change. Oh, and he's a republican who once called for the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas to be turfed out of Buck House into a "more modest dwelling" Not a trough-snouter who claims very modest expenses, not in it for ego or self-aggrandisement, someone who genuinely cares about a decent, peaceful society.

    But to listen to the WingNut press you'd think the man was a raving lunatic with bizarre and insane notions...when it is actually WingNut policies that have repeatedly failed, in country after country, for decade after decade. A certain quote from Einstein springs to mind.
    He is as I said I think very much similar to Tony Benn though he came a generation too late so he never got a Cabinet role or into a position of policy influence...

  14. #29
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    You aren't actually having a conversation though are you, yer just sniping, at either me or at an imaginary version of Corbyn. I don't think you've actually made any sort of point in the entire thread.

    As to the real Corbyn this profile piece was very interesting

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...nt-do-personal

    This is a man who actually spent 2 years on a VSO in Jamaica, and who was on the right side of a huge range of issues from Pinochet and Apartheid to Iraq to our own Birmingham Six, Guildford Four and the need to actually talk to Sinn Fein - and I often get the impression that a lot of the commentariat are still fighting that particular battle well over 20 years later - to today's battles like increasing inequality, the TTIP and climate change. Oh, and he's a republican who once called for the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas to be turfed out of Buck House into a "more modest dwelling" Not a trough-snouter who claims very modest expenses, not in it for ego or self-aggrandisement, someone who genuinely cares about a decent, peaceful society.

    But to listen to the WingNut press you'd think the man was a raving lunatic with bizarre and insane notions...when it is actually WingNut policies that have repeatedly failed, in country after country, for decade after decade. A certain quote from Einstein springs to mind.

    It's also interesting that the deputy position looks to be going to Tom Watson. Ya know, they guy that has kept niggling away at the peados-in-high-places scandal, the guy who exposed the NOTW phone hacking scandal, the guy who compared Murdoch to a mafia boss, and who opposed the Digital Economy Act.

    Corbyn and Watson together could be an extremely effective team in going on the attack against the lunatic neo-liberal orthodoxy.

    Finally riddle me this: if Corbyn is such a loony who will inevitably make millions of voters desert Labour and who will 100% guarantee massive Tory victories for 20 years to come.....why are the entirety of the right-wing media and politicians in such obvious outright panic over today's poll?
    Thanks for explaining that to me - much appreciated.


  15. #30
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    Default Re: UK Labour leadership contest - Corbyn supporter threatens 'purge' of Blairites if candidate wins

    As for "unelectable" it would appear there is solid data to suggest the UK electorate actually agree with 9 of Corbyn's main policies

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10407148.html

    Corbyn is on the same side as the people when it comes to little unimportant matters like foreign policy, nationalising the railways, rent controls (which have long been a feature of such Marxist wastelands as ummmm New York and Berlin), a living wage, tuition fees and more.

    Unelectable?

    Funny that all the right wingers have is hysteria and snide sniping when finally confronted with actual opposition.

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