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Thread: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Yes, everyone is out for themselves - the politicians are all over the Dunnes Stores workers like a rash, thinking that maybe Dunnes will back down and that a few votes can be got for showing their faces at the picket line, without having to dig in to the shrinking "public purse" to get them. Even Mandate's officials have the look of people thinking themselves on to a good thing - maybe getting new members and subs, and getting credit for association with a popular cause.

    What would be good to see would be other shop workers working for diferent chains, who are in the same boat re negotiating rights, hours and rates, come out in solidarity and to get better terms themselves.
    Without saying too much, I've a friend now working in one of the important Regulatory offices on Dame Street who gets our spam and who spent 5 years working in Penneys and he says it's compulsory there to join a union, and all staff get annual pay rises. Also you are guaranteed at least 20 hours afaik part time, indeed expected to work upto 25 part time and upto 39 full time, with regular and well paid overtime as well for all staff.

    Ruth Coppinger made a good point in that Ireland has one of the EU's highest UNDER-employment rates at about 25%. People cannot get enough work. Not exactly the case with Dunnes but it's also relevant to the discussion on how the Irish economy is being re-designed at present as a low wage service-based economy.

    As I said I will be back for some summer work before jetting off again when Teaching season comes round once more as there's always plenty of summer work around. I teach English abroad in the TEFL area, like many people working and traveling, but my degree more or less qualifies me to teach Business, Economics and French in Ireland(I would just need to get a 9 month add on postgrad certificate). The work simply isn't there, whether it's teaching or whatever, and where it clearly is there-in retail-Dunnes and many others find no end of means to exploit people be that jobbridge, zero hours or rostering or whatever.

    The sad thing is around the Drogheda/East Meath area Dunnes are not the worst offender-that honour falls to Supervalu/Musgraves who regularly hire young people and send them home during shifts, maybe having them in for 5-10 hours a week in total.

    Dunnes should be legally made guarantee all workers fair representation, fair pay reviews every year, and a minimum number of hours to all staff(at least 20 is the norm in Retail, even small shops where people work for 8.65 or on cash in hand!!!).

    Extra Seasonal work demands around summer and xmas is no reason to treat people like crap every other week of the year.

    Did you see that sliveen Eamon Delaney out in force this week? Is there nothing drooling medieval types like him aren't apologists for? 'Social Conservative' has to be the kindest way of saying medieval knuckledragger. Even had a pop at people for opposing jobbridge....
    Last edited by Apjp; 04-04-2015 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post

    Celtic Tiger Cubs is the stupidest expression I've ever heard.

    As a young person my contract never allowed me to join a union. As a young unemployed person, and at one stage a young homeless person, I could only survive thanks to family.

    My experience is everyone in Irish society is out for them fecking selves and to hell with the young and the vulnerable.
    I'm just picking out these three points for a reason. One is linked to the first and last point, during the Celtic tiger a lot of people were thought to look out for themselves and feck everything else. The perfect example of this is the same young workers who thought it hilarious to play Hit The Road Jack on Vinnie B during the week, while missing the point he was taking his stand (preplanned or otherwise) in support of them!! It's like the the 20 somethings storming past the Dunnes picket I visited with their earphones in because they couldn't walk another 50 metres to the nearby Spar or Centra. That's the Celtic Tiger Cubs Fluffy is referring to.

    In terms of your second point, noone is barred from joining a union, it's enshrined in the constitution that you can, along with the right of the employer to ignore unions, sadly. Nothing is stopping anyone joining the relevant union and paying direct debit, which means the employer doesn't know you are a member.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Even Mandate's officials have the look of people thinking themselves on to a good thing - maybe getting new members and subs, and getting credit for association with a popular cause.
    That's a frankly ludicrous statement. The union officials are acting on their members wish to improve their lot, of course they will be looking to get more members in within Dunnes as the more they have the more power there is, imagine if they were able to pull 9,000 of the 10,000 workers out on Thursday instead of the 6,000 or so that they did. Union's need to keep bringing in members to keep going. Mandate have only applied the principals that have worked for them in other major retailers, who over the years they have taken on at some stage in the form of a row or stoppage of some sort.

    To be honest with you, I get the impression your of the left with your posts, but you can never resist an aul dig at the unions when you can.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Launchbury View Post
    That's a frankly ludicrous statement. The union officials are acting on their members wish to improve their lot, of course they will be looking to get more members in within Dunnes as the more they have the more power there is, imagine if they were able to pull 9,000 of the 10,000 workers out on Thursday instead of the 6,000 or so that they did. Union's need to keep bringing in members to keep going. Mandate have only applied the principals that have worked for them in other major retailers, who over the years they have taken on at some stage in the form of a row or stoppage of some sort.

    To be honest with you, I get the impression your of the left with your posts, but you can never resist an aul dig at the unions when you can.
    No, I'm not against unions, and have always been a member of a union when entitled to be in one (whether in temp. or permanent job). I think everyone should be in one
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Launchbury View Post
    I'm just picking out these three points for a reason. One is linked to the first and last point, during the Celtic tiger a lot of people were thought to look out for themselves and feck everything else. The perfect example of this is the same young workers who thought it hilarious to play Hit The Road Jack on Vinnie B during the week, while missing the point he was taking his stand (preplanned or otherwise) in support of them!! It's like the the 20 somethings storming past the Dunnes picket I visited with their earphones in because they couldn't walk another 50 metres to the nearby Spar or Centra. That's the Celtic Tiger Cubs Fluffy is referring to.

    In terms of your second point, noone is barred from joining a union, it's enshrined in the constitution that you can, along with the right of the employer to ignore unions, sadly. Nothing is stopping anyone joining the relevant union and paying direct debit, which means the employer doesn't know you are a member.
    My angry reply wasn't targeting any of your comments.

    Well firstly that period you mention was before my time a bit as I only left school in 2009. The way Fluffy said it everybody in their twenties is like this, which is rambling nonsense on his part. I'm not into getting about 'who is worst off', but the point had to be made.

    It's a pejorative phrase punned by the media. Like me coming out and saying anyone who bought a home for their family 'went mad borrowing'. You understand how insulting that would be-this phrase is a similar barb to me, and the person using it in their post was certainly not being as careful about it in usage as you are, and was tarring young people generally with it.

    If I can't openly and freely join a union without losing my job that's not free association, and I say that as someone who approves of Bunreachtism in the main where it works. I would not join a union and hide it in other words.

    I am guessing a lot of the 4'000 other staff who we are not happy with were old as well as young.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    No, I'm not against unions, and have always been a member of a union when entitled to be in one (whether in temp. or permanent job). I think everyone should be in one
    I would just like to say I don't think Mandate were being 'out for themselves'.

    I meant this is something I feel pervades a lot of Irish society generally.

    I think people on here would do well to distinguish between Jack O' Connor and Siptu.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    My angry reply wasn't targeting any of your comments.

    Well firstly that period you mention was before my time a bit as I only left school in 2009. The way Fluffy said it everybody in their twenties is like this, which is rambling nonsense on his part. I'm not into getting about 'who is worst off', but the point had to be made.

    It's a pejorative phrase punned by the media. Like me coming out and saying anyone who bought a home for their family 'went mad borrowing'. You understand how insulting that would be-this phrase is a similar barb to me, and the person using it in their post was certainly not being as careful about it in usage as you are, and was tarring young people generally with it.

    If I can't openly and freely join a union without losing my job that's not free association, and I say that as someone who approves of Bunreachtism in the main where it works. I would not join a union and hide it in other words.

    I am guessing a lot of the 4'000 other staff who we are not happy with were old as well as young.
    Correct and right in regards to the non union element in Dunnes being a mixture. I'm guessing Fluffy ment the phrase used the way I take but he would be best to answer that anyway. And it's illegal to sack someone for being in a union but that's not to say another reason won't be thought of to cover up the real reason.

    Hopefully the collective bargaining legislation will be strong enough on its anti victimisation to stop this


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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Launchbury View Post
    Correct and right in regards to the non union element in Dunnes being a mixture. I'm guessing Fluffy ment the phrase used the way I take but he would be best to answer that anyway. And it's illegal to sack someone for being in a union but that's not to say another reason won't be thought of to cover up the real reason.

    Hopefully the collective bargaining legislation will be strong enough on its anti victimisation to stop this


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    While I don't know the situation with Dunnes exactly, wee know that young office workers on certain types of contracts have no union rights in effect.

    I think it's just wrong to suggest otherwise.

    Until some new law says all companies HAVE to recognise workers union rights and HAVE to agree to sector wide wage agreements, and afaik the new one will be another shitty opt-out law, then we're not going to solve this at all.

    Austria has this already as does France.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    While I don't know the situation with Dunnes exactly, wee know that young office workers on certain types of contracts have no union rights in effect.

    I think it's just wrong to suggest otherwise.

    Until some new law says all companies HAVE to recognise workers union rights and HAVE to agree to sector wide wage agreements, and afaik the new one will be another shitty opt-out law, then we're not going to solve this at all.

    Austria has this already as does France.
    I'm sort of agreeing with you, by strict letter of the law nothing is stopping you joining, but the reality is somewhat different and lives are made extremely difficult for people who speak up.

    Related to that I've seen on the Decency for Dunnes Workers Facebook that acts of retribution in regards of rosters, hours etc been messed about with, for striking workers who have come back in. It isn't over by a long shot yet.


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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Launchbury View Post
    I'm sort of agreeing with you, by strict letter of the law nothing is stopping you joining, but the reality is somewhat different and lives are made extremely difficult for people who speak up.

    Related to that I've seen on the Decency for Dunnes Workers Facebook that acts of retribution in regards of rosters, hours etc been messed about with, for striking workers who have come back in. It isn't over by a long shot yet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I would not feel comfortable joining a Union were I working in Ireland full time now.

    One of many reasons I spend most of the year working abroad..

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    I support this campaign - while fully recognising that there are other workers in retail that have much worse conditions than those in Dunnes Stores.

    The Dunnes workers today are the moral successors of those that made a stand against apartheid back in the 80s, they have made a great move of solidarity here, and I do believe all that support workers' rights should get behind them on this.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    While I don't know the situation with Dunnes exactly, wee know that young office workers on certain types of contracts have no union rights in effect.

    I think it's just wrong to suggest otherwise.

    Until some new law says all companies HAVE to recognise workers union rights and HAVE to agree to sector wide wage agreements, and afaik the new one will be another shitty opt-out law, then we're not going to solve this at all.

    Austria has this already as does France.
    As Launchbury already mentioned, the right for association with a union is constitutionally enshrined in Bunreacht na hEireann. But I think you are correct in stating there is no particular legal obligation on all Irish companies to recognise unions, and the Irish law courts have interpreted the relevant provisions from Bunreacht na hEireann in a fashion that is fairly employer-friendly, i.e.- that the right of association implies a right to non-association.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    As Launchbury already mentioned, the right for association with a union is constitutionally enshrined in Bunreacht na hEireann. But I think you are correct in stating there is no particular legal obligation on all Irish companies to recognise unions, and the Irish law courts have interpreted the relevant provisions from Bunreacht na hEireann in a fashion that is fairly employer-friendly, i.e.- that the right of association implies a right to non-association.
    You have to make it compulsory and part of the Business culture over time i.e. like in Austria, France, Denmark and large parts of Germany.

    Non-Association is ******** and is tantamount to saying while citizens have a right to the provision of services, the State has a right to non-provision of services.

    We need to force it on them more or less and once they bite the bullet it'll become ingrained.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Mandate is reporting sackings, demotions and hour cuts for some workers who took part in last Thursday's strike.

    Shocking stuff.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 08-04-2015 at 05:29 PM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Decency For Dunnes Workers.

    Going to try and never darken Dunne's doors again. Scumbags.

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