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Thread: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

  1. #3751
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    Greece's problems, like most of the Balkan countries, probably stretch back further than that. With a crippling culture of clientalism, the problems brought to the fore by philhellensim and the desire for expanding the Greek nation to include Greek populations in other parts of the Ottoman empire. The western powers were able to take advantage of Greek civil war to install the German monarch.

    The rotten solical/economic structures that evolved under Ottoman rule, the desire for the Great Idea and the Great Powers exploiting varying situations on the ground to suit their own agenda are probably the roots of a lot of Greece's problems.
    excellent post

    this i believe is a lot more in line with the historic backdrop of where Greece finds itself now

  2. #3752
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Marxist Historian View Post
    Oops! For some reason, I thought that post from you was from CF. Nevermind! Apologies to both of you.

    -AMH-

    why/how would your answers be different if you assume twas CF writing that post

  3. #3753
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Marxist Historian View Post
    Well yes. I do think that countries should be allowed to do what they want to do, rather than what foreign imperials powers dominating them want them to do. Let them make their own mistakes.

    I am sorely tempted to say that this is because I am a freedom-loving American. Isn't that what the American Revolution was all about?
    i agree with this in broad terms - but the Venezuelan case is a bit hard to watch, dont you think? and the situation in Syria as well?

    it can be claimed in both instances they did it to themselves ..



    Venezuela is in a horrible mess, but so is most of Latin America, and at least Venezuela still has some programs to help the poor out in the current situation.
    Many countries in Latin America are far worse off, the horror story of Colombia next door, with a "democracy" run pretty much the way Assad runs Syria, a stomach turning example.

    -AMH-

    ROFLOL [ this guy's hilarious!! ]

  4. #3754
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    why/how would your answers be different if you assume twas CF writing that post
    That's what I did assume, so in no way. As a response to you, well, it would definitely be different. I certainly don't see you as a Lenin admirer!

    -AMH-

  5. #3755
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Marxist Historian View Post
    I certainly don't see you as a Lenin admirer!

    -AMH-

  6. #3756
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skrimshander View Post
    Hi Cass, I Dont know the answer to that. Maybe its a simple show of force. The figures in the times article from last week are startling to say the least, and looking fwd, i can't see anything changing except continually getting worse for the citizen's of Greece.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...sion-1.3085205
    Thanks Skrimshander. Yes. There are strikes in the public services - bin collection and buses - at the moment due to non payment of wages. That article shows that it is not going to get better. Regular KKE, PAME and Anarchist protests. Troop carriers and paddy wagons randomly ? down back streets most days and these muscled-up thugs are raging with negative energies (to say the least).

    newspaper headline in September 2016 read “Reforms to be done by early October, government says”; it didn’t specify which October, and we are still waiting. Original bailout

    The facts of economic life on the macro-scale are terrifying. The original bailout in 2011 was supposed to reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio from 160 per cent to 110 per cent. The ratio now stands at 177 per cent, due in large part to the IMF’s incorrect calculations which have created a self-perpetuating recessionary cycle. Greece was bankrupt in 2011, is even more bankrupt now and will be further into bankruptcy next year.
    The current debts will not be repaid until at least 2040. The state itself owes €3.8 billion to its suppliers. In July it must make interest repayments to creditors of €7 billion, money it simply doesn’t have.

    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #3757
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Interesting intervention by former Greek Finance Min on Finucane yesterday. He says Noonan brown nosed the Troika, Trichet and everyone else.

    Agreed?

  8. #3758
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Interesting intervention by former Greek Finance Min on Finucane yesterday. He says Noonan brown nosed the Troika, Trichet and everyone else.

    Agreed?
    Yes - I noted it on a Varoufakis thread.

    We followed Noonan's progress here blow by blow. There was a pantomime from Noonan and Kenny that they were trying to get some kind of a write down, but that was only for Irish public consumption.

    Something new brought to my attention on twitter yesterday is that Noonan tried (and failed) to sell the Irish banks to Qatar a couple of years ago.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #3759
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Something new brought to my attention on twitter yesterday is that Noonan tried (and failed) to sell the Irish banks to Qatar a couple of years ago.
    Jaysus, well, at least they have money. Wonder what the EU made of that idea?

    Fintan has a right go at Noonan this morning.

  10. #3760
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Jaysus, well, at least they have money. Wonder what the EU made of that idea?

    Fintan has a right go at Noonan this morning.
    Really ? Where ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  11. #3761
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Jaysus, well, at least they have money. Wonder what the EU made of that idea?

    .
    Whatever they have got left after funding ISIS ? Still, the Irish banks were too toxic for them to touch.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  12. #3762
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Really ? Where ?
    Irish Times this (yesterday) morning, apropos bailing the banks and brown nosing the EU.

  13. #3763
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Whatever they have got left after funding ISIS ? Still, the Irish banks were too toxic for them to touch.
    Qatar can fund anything, they have the world's largest gas field on one side and oil field on the other. There are only about 100k actual Qatar natives....today, there were only 38k when it was "founded" by drawing a line in the sand in the Saudi desert.

    I worked with the guy who was deputed by the UK to 'organise' the new country, early meetings were held in a yurt.

  14. #3764
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    Default Re: Greece 2015, swan song or a new beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Qatar can fund anything, they have the world's largest gas field on one side and oil field on the other. There are only about 100k actual Qatar natives....today, there were only 38k when it was "founded" by drawing a line in the sand in the Saudi desert.

    I worked with the guy who was deputed by the UK to 'organise' the new country, early meetings were held in a yurt.
    Thank you for that interesting note.

    Who I wonder is organising it now ?

    The US, France and the British joust with each other somewhat in North Africa / the Gulf
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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