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Thread: Banking Crisis Inquiry - Let the Games Begin - UPDATE - Final Report Leaked

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Joe Higgins is not ruling himself out as a possible replacement for Stephen Donnelly on the committee.

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Steveo is on Vinny tonight

    The #vinb panel will also discuss the Banking Inquiry with @DonnellyStephen Peter Mathews, @popcornhack and @SenThomasByrne
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Joe Higgins is not ruling himself out as a possible replacement for Stephen Donnelly on the committee.
    Pathetic, imo. Donnelly was absolutely right. Why is Higgins attempting to lend credibility to this business?

    Another opportunity to make repetitive generalisations about bankers and bondholders ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Pathetic, imo. Donnelly was absolutely right. Why is Higgins attempting to lend credibility to this business?

    Another opportunity to make repetitive generalisations about bankers and bondholders ?
    He's going to look a right twit when Fine Gael ensure the terms of reference don't allow the committee to examine the government's role post the end of 2010. If even that far.

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    He's going to look a right twit when Fine Gael ensure the terms of reference don't allow the committee to examine the government's role post the end of 2010. If even that far.
    He is going to be a 'voice for ordinary people' - apart from the ones who were cheering Steven Donnelly on for finally bringing a little honesty into the Oireachtas.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    He's going to look a right twit when Fine Gael ensure the terms of reference don't allow the committee to examine the government's role post the end of 2010. If even that far.
    It is absolutely vital that Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan are called to the inquiry. We must find out exactly what they were told when they were elected and spoke to Europe on our bailout/banks.
    Thomas Jefferson : Banking Establishments are More Dangerous to our Liberties than Standing Armies.

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    It is absolutely vital that Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan are called to the inquiry. We must find out exactly what they were told when they were elected and spoke to Europe on our bailout/banks.
    Kenny has already said he won't talk on that. Posted on the previous page here.

    Willie McAteer arrested today for allegedly deceiving about the value of deposit books - I thought the Attorney General advised the DSG that that was ok to do....
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    apart from the ones who were cheering Steven Donnelly on for finally bringing a little honesty into the Oireachtas.
    Rumour has it that Donnelly is going to join FF

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Pathetic, imo. Donnelly was absolutely right. Why is Higgins attempting to lend credibility to this business?

    Another opportunity to make repetitive generalisations about bankers and bondholders ?
    http://joehiggins.ie/2014/06/stateme...ry-nomination/

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant View Post
    [QUOTE]Statement on my Banking Inquiry Nomination


    I allowed my name to stand as a candidate for the Technical Group vacancy on the banking Inquiry and that was agreed at today’s meeting of the group.
    The government’s actions in cobbling together a majority on the Committee has been unbelievably crude and hamfisted. However, while this has shown to the world the cynical manoeuvrings that go on among the establishment political parties in the Oireachtas as they jockey for advantage, it fundamentally changes nothing. All parties understood that the government was always going to use its Dáil majority to have a majority on the Committee
    Well, I thought it was Steven Donnelly's firm stand that showed that. So Higgins thinks there is nothing untoward about the way this committee was set up. Donnelly had made the case that FG does not intend a serious investigation, but a political bear pit to roast its enemies. So far as I can see, Joe Higgins is giving cover the Fine Gael here.

    More profoundly, for me, the problem is that the Committee is composed of a huge majority of the political establishment enquiring into the actions of the same establishment in the run up to, during and after the banking crisis.

    I would favour an investigation representing the ordinary people of the country, including representatives of the victims of the property bubble and crash, but that was not going to happen with this government.
    So why does the Socialist Party not hold one ? Along with the rest of the Labour Movement, anti-austerity movement and left parties ?
    My clear view was that there was an obligation on me to offer to go on the Committee of Inquiry in order to be in a position to call to account those who were in positions of responsibility in politics, banking and construction before, during and after the banking crisis.
    Good luck, Joe.
    There should be no question of this being a very narrow task limited to the bank guarantee of 2008. It is my firm view that there must be an investigation of the blowing up of the property bubble and the speculation and profiteering that accompanied it. The principal actors and the responsible regulators must be questioned. But also it must be considered why commercial, profit maximisation operations should be allowed to use the basic right to a home to be a subject for obscene profiteering and why the financial markets are accorded unquestioning mastery over the finances of supposedly sovereign states.
    That's a job for the working class and its parties, and all interested citizens, not for the Oireachtas, which is complicit up to its eyeballs, and has no interest whatsover in those questions.
    With regard to the bailout the role of banks must be investigated, the role of the political authorities at the time but also the role of the European Central Bank and the Troika in pressuring the Irish State to underwrite the private losses of private institutions. All the secret correspondence between the State and the European authorities, phone conversations and any other form of contact must be revealed.
    Already ruled out of order, in recent days, but no harm in asking. But why do we need the enquiry to do that ?

    The role of the present government in continuing the policy of bailout and austerity must be examined. In particular there must be an elucidation of the alleged threats of the ECB made to Minister for Finance Noonan and the government in 2011 if they forced some bondholders to take losses.
    Likewise, already ruled out of order, and we hardly need a year long enquiry to do that anyway.
    Obviously participating in this Enquiry is an enormous personal undertaking requiring a huge work load but, in justice, that is owed it to all those who individually suffered from the relevant events of the last fifteen years or so but also to the ordinary people in our society – middle and low income workers, the unemployed, pensioners and young people – who have been forced to shoulder the burden of this manifestation of capitalism.


    It was a classic albeit massive capitalist boom and burst. There really is no huge mystery about it. An enquiry will make arrests less, not more, likely.

    What is far more important and urgent a question is why has the left in Ireland been so ineffectual in building a political alternative, and why has so little alternative policy and programme been put forward by the left ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Cabinet discussions on guarantee ‘off limits’ to banking inquiry -

    The Oireachtas banking inquiry has been told that the minutes and discussions of the cabinet meeting on the night of the bank guarantee are off limits to its investigations.
    The 11 member committee met again today and was given legal advice that while it will be able to examine memos and other supporting documentation prepared for the Fianna Fáil-Green cabinet, the deliberations of ministers during the meeting will not be open to it.
    However, sources said the committee was told the contents of the incorporeal cabinet meeting of September 30th, 2008, will not be open to investigation or questioning because of the constitutional right to cabinet confidentiality.
    “We won’t be able to look at the minutes or ask anyone about what was said at the meeting,” one source said.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...-j3y6g.twitter
    Thomas Jefferson : Banking Establishments are More Dangerous to our Liberties than Standing Armies.

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Cabinet discussions on guarantee ‘off limits’ to banking inquiry -

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...-j3y6g.twitter
    There was no Cabinet meeting that night - only Cowen and Lenihan were there from the Government.

    The Cabinet meeting was the day before, the Sunday. It has been confirmed (Eamon Ryan and I think Hanafin) that the Guarantee was discussed and nodded through then.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    There was no Cabinet meeting that night - only Cowen and Lenihan were there from the Government.

    The Cabinet meeting was the day before, the Sunday. It has been confirmed (Eamon Ryan and I think Hanafin) that the Guarantee was discussed and nodded through then.
    Yes this is about the "Incorporeal Cabinet Meeting"
    Thomas Jefferson : Banking Establishments are More Dangerous to our Liberties than Standing Armies.

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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Yes this is about the "Incorporeal Cabinet Meeting"
    Hard to know what more could be said about that. I think everyone has already said what happened.

    The incorporeal meeting idea was just window dressing.

    I'm not sure why the Sunday meeting was quite such a secret. I can see why it was a secret at the time, but once the Guarantee was voted through..... ?

    Unless of course the illegality of the whole thing is a worry ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Bank Guarantee Enquiry - Cowan to be Called to Give Evidence ? : UPDATE Post 28 Political Crisis as Kenny Controls Enquir

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Hard to know what more could be said about that. I think everyone has already said what happened.

    The incorporeal meeting idea was just window dressing.

    I'm not sure why the Sunday meeting was quite such a secret. I can see why it was a secret at the time, but once the Guarantee was voted through..... ?

    Unless of course the illegality of the whole thing is a worry ?
    I don't understand reason for secrecy but there is a good chance that full legalities of it are being deemed as sensitive.

    But to who or whom ?
    Thomas Jefferson : Banking Establishments are More Dangerous to our Liberties than Standing Armies.

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