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Thread: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

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    Default Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Well then, inspired gamble or chucking in the towel?

    Antonis Samaras has announced that he is bringing FORWARD the procedure of electing a new President to NEXT WEEK. He has proposed ex EU commissioner Stavros Dimas (Stavros who???) as his candidate. Either Samaras knows something nobody else knows, or this is his way of finally giving in to the popular demand for him to pack his bags. Or is there someting else going on nobody is aware off?
    As the constitution states, he will need the backing of 180 MPs to get his man elected. If he doesn't get this number, then his government falls and we can have general elections as soon as January 15th. Every single poll conducted over the last 3 months tells him he hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting that 180 votes. His party vote is dropping like a stone, his personal popularity is below 10%, his government reaches a whopping 94% "no trust" vote... So what's the game?

    Stavros Dimas was the former EU commissioner for the Environment (the guy who did nothing about the scandals of rubbish dumps all over the country, just kept on pumping money into the pockets of "friendly" politicians and municipalities. This has now lead to a 10 million Euro fine from the EU for Greece. Dimas also served as minister for Foreign Affairs under the Troika imposed Papademos government, and is one of the people responsible for agreeing to the whole MoU1 and MoU2 being placed under jurisdiction of British Law... Acording to Samaras
    He is widely regarded as a person who unites and inspires. He unites citizens beyond their party preferences and inspires gravity, trust and respect
    Right.

    Tsipras is calling it a victory for the people and democracy and telling us we can look forward to a SYRIZA lead government from January onwards. Of course, the thumb screws are already being turned by the likes of Paul Poulson declaring that his hedgefunds have "withdrawn" from investment in Greece because of the distinct possibility of a far-left government. Poulson was mainly engaged in buying resources on the cheap, like harbours, airports, etc. That source of goodies will dry up immediately as soon as Syriza comes to power. We don't particularly care about him not "investing" any longer, in fact, we applaud his decision. The right wing press is already in full swing, predicting that Greece will run out of money within 2 weeks if we dare not accept the Presidential candidate and insist on a general election etc.
    Watch this space, this will get ugly very fast, very soon...
    Last edited by Ephilant; 09-12-2014 at 11:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    For everyone else's sake we need instability to kick off somewhere, otherwise there will be no change.

    More power to your elbow Comrade Tsipras.

    If nothing else, think of how much this would **** Merkel and Juncker and all those other ******* off.

    Especially that ultra right German Finance Minister.

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    For everyone else's sake we need instability to kick off somewhere, otherwise there will be no change.

    More power to your elbow Comrade Tsipras.

    If nothing else, think of how much this would **** Merkel and Juncker and all those other ******* off.

    Especially that ultra right German Finance Minister.
    I'm afraid I'm in full agreement. And Greece should kick off. in fairness, what has been imposed on the Greek people by both their own idiot pols and the troika is far worse than anything we, the Italians, Spanish or Portuguese have had to suffer.

    And Tsipras leads a large and relatively united Left wing that seem credible, even more so in comparison with the alternatives.
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    There is of course the point that Samaras has made sure that the kitty is empty, and the TROIKA has made sure it will remain empty with no "safety net" is in place for "unforeseen circumstance" like a new, not so austerity friendly government. We could of course vote correctly...
    Then there is also the investigation into allegations that an as of yet unnamed highly placed figure in Nea Demokratia has been offering up to 3 miilion in "reward money" to independent and opposition MPs who would be willing to vote with the government on the new president...

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephilant View Post
    There is of course the point that Samaras has made sure that the kitty is empty, and the TROIKA has made sure it will remain empty with no "safety net" is in place for "unforeseen circumstance" like a new, not so austerity friendly government. We could of course vote correctly...
    Then there is also the investigation into allegations that an as of yet unnamed highly placed figure in Nea Demokratia has been offering up to 3 miilion in "reward money" to independent and opposition MPs who would be willing to vote with the government on the new president...
    That really is disgusting. Is there any chance that Tsipras will still win, do you think? The neck of the EU/Troika/Germans in giving out yards about "Greek corruption" and then weighing in with seriously backhanded interference to make sure the "right" candidate wins, really takes the biscuit.

    It will be interesting to see do they try this here in Ireland, in a run up to an election? Probably not; SF doesn't have Tsipras' form on inflammatory anti-EU rhetoric and the Inds are not united enough to pose a Syriza style risk. They must also realise they might be doing more harm than good?
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    The Greeks have been demonised because they are the philosophers, the intellectual and spiritual rebels of Europe, those who never ever bought the line from their politicians that Austerity was necessary(we did, to our society's shame, or at least a majority of us until recently did!).

    In many ways this Greek resurgence will be an antidote to the last few years and can only encourage the rest of us, such as the Irish, Spanish, Portuguese and maybe others such as the Cypriots and Italians(I actually think Renzi would bandwagon on this-it's him or the 5 star, so he's probably a lesser evil for other rebellious governments of the centre left-left to align with).

    The great myth is the west or France and Germany, Britain and the various empires started democracy, social justice and philosophy.

    Greece beat them to it by thousands of years and it's like they all harbour a serious grudge or something.

    Somebody get Del to give Paddy the Greek a call!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    So, the assault is in full swing, just before Christmas... Stockmarket lost 12% today, press full of articles on how bad things will get if we don't get a president elected and have to organize a general election. If SYRIZA wins this, or becomes the majority partner in a coalition government, then the 4 horsemen of the apocalyps will turn out to be 8 riders, the gate to hell will open and swallow the lot of us, Armageddon will happen immediately, together with a repetition of the seven plagues, we will be overrun by muslims and SYRIZA will impose SHARIA law, you name it.

    Personally, I believe this was the whole idea. It would not surprise me that the move by Samaras was Troika inspired. Despite all the "good news" in terms of our "progress", which was accepted by the Troika, they suddenly turned the screws. This that and the other, or else. I'm just waiting for what the sweatener is going to be if we decide to "vote correctly"...

    Meanwhile, her is the 40 point program which was drawn up by the various parties making up SYRIZA, when it became a single party. This has, to my knowledge, not changed. IF this whole saga goes the way a lot of people think it will, and SYRIZA becomes the new government, this is the platform they will be working on. If I'm right, but the plan backfires and SYRIZA does indeed become the ruling party, then, well, this is the basis on which they propose to operate. Interesting times ahead...


    1. Audit of the public debt and renegotiation of interest due and suspension of payments until the economy has revived and growth and employment return.

    2. Demand the European Union to change the role of the European Central Bank so that it finances states and programs of public investment.

    3. Raise income tax to 75% for all incomes over 500,000 euros.

    4. Change the election laws to a proportional system.

    5. Increase taxes on big companies to that of the European average.

    6. Adoption of a tax on financial transactions and a special tax on luxury goods.

    7. Prohibition of speculative financial derivatives.

    8. Abolition of financial privileges for the Church and shipbuilding industry.

    9. Combat the banks' secret [measures] and the flight of capital abroad.

    10. Cut drastically military expenditures.

    11. Raise minimum salary to the pre-cut level, 750 euros per month.

    12. Use buildings of the government, banks and the Church for the homeless.

    13. Open dining rooms in public schools to offer free breakfast and lunch to children.

    14. Free health benefits to the unemployed, homeless and those with low salaries.

    15. Subvention up to 30% of mortgage payments for poor families who cannot meet payments.

    16. Increase of subsidies for the unemployed. Increase social protection for one-parent families, the aged, disabled, and families with no income.

    17. Fiscal reductions for goods of primary necessity.

    18. Nationalisation of banks.

    19. Nationalisation of ex-public (service & utilities) companies in strategic sectors for the growth of the country (railroads, airports, mail, water).

    20. Preference for renewable energy and defence of the environment.

    21. Equal salaries for men and women.

    22. Limitation of precarious hiring and support for contracts for indeterminate time.

    23. Extension of the protection of labour and salaries of part-time workers.

    24. Recovery of collective (labour) contracts.

    25. Increase inspections of labour and requirements for companies making bids for public contracts.

    26. Constitutional reforms to guarantee separation of church and state and protection of the right to education, health care and the environment.

    27. Referendums on treaties and other accords with Europe.

    28. Abolition of privileges for parliamentary deputies. Removal of special juridical protection for ministers and permission for the courts to proceed against members of the government.

    29. Demilitarisation of the Coast Guard and anti-insurrectional special troops. Prohibition for police to wear masks or use fire arms during demonstrations. Change training courses for police so as to underline social themes such as immigration, drugs and social factors.

    30. Guarantee human rights in immigrant detention centres.

    31. Facilitate the reunion of immigrant families.

    32. Depenalisation of consumption of drugs in favor of battle against drug traffic. Increase funding for drug rehab centres.

    33. Regulate the right of conscientious objection in draft laws.

    34. Increase funding for public health up to the average European level.(The European average is 6% of GDP; in Greece 3%.)

    35. Elimination of payments by citizens for national health services.

    36. Nationalisation of private hospitals. Elimination of private participation in the national health system.

    37. Withdrawal of Greek troops from Afghanistan and the Balkans. No Greek soldiers beyond our own borders.

    38. Abolition of military cooperation with Israel. Support for creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.

    39. Negotiation of a stable accord with Turkey.

    40. Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO.

    Is it any surprise that there is a serious measure of panic with the "established powers"...

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Thanks for the update!
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    That all looks good, Ephilant, but they'll have the Devil's own job paying for it unless they default and dump the Euro. Is that in the manifesto as well?
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    No. They have always said that they would like to stay in the Eurozone and in the EU because you can only implement the necessary changes form within, not from the outside. But, if need be, then they will leave. As I've always said, all it takes is for 1 domino to go, and the whole lot follows. This is what especially the Northern EU states are afraid of. If SYRIZA does get into government, then you'll see a dirty tricks box being opening, the likes of which you can't imagine in your wildest dreams. Because Schabule and Co know that with Syriza at the helm, and if they are allowed to set root, the game is up...
    On a local level they are already implementing a lot of these things. Only today the second municipality owned, and thus far empty apartment block in Athens was turned into a social housing project, called Neas Cosmos (New World. The block is also not somewhere on the outskirts, miles form everywhere. It is right by the parliament, in the very centre of the city.
    The first project houses 50 people, this one will house another 35 or 40. The families get a 6 month lease, extended with another 6 months if need be. The cost invovled for the family is minimal, the intention is to give them a fighting chance to get back on their own feet. And just to sink the myth that SYRIZA in power will automatically spell the end of "investment" in Greece, the big scare tactic employed by Samaras and co, both these projects are funded and financed by Proctor and Gamble, not exactly a company known for its socialist views...

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    And so the fun starts. Bomb defused outside a bank in Athens this morning, Kaisariani (Athens) town hall damaged by bomb attack, 296 people arrested for rioting in Athens, Thessaloniki and Patras, police officers in hospital, rioters in hospital, Alpha bank torched, molotov cocktails galore... This is going to be a proper Greek election marathon. We'll miss Loukanikos...


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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Just goes to show if the Govt. was shaken by a few water balloons and blockades in Dublin, they'd not last five seconds if the Irish were to explode in the same way.

    We really have been saints, and it is a wonder worse than water balloons haven't been thrown at politicians.

    You can't blame them though can you-not when it's like a futuristic version of Ireland-'Ten more years of austerity' as Bruton let slip.

    Comrade Tsipras is on his way.

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Tsipras really, really deserves to be elected, but will he be, or will Troika skulduggery ensure that he isn't? Worried!
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    The way I see this is as the final step in a concerted effort to kill all opposition to TROIKA imposed, government executed policy. The pattern is really clear. First, people everywhere got lured with "cheap money", little or no regulation, checks or controls on the system. There is one incident here of a man earning 160 a week, getting a mortgage for a house worth 350K, and using that house a colateral to get another 6 mortgages, 3 from the same bank! Do you blame the guy, or the regulators and bankers?
    The money gets invested in assets. Along comes 2008, and the money tree is chopped down, people find themselves suddenly cash poor, unable to service their loans and any other financial commitments they may have. So are governments. In Greece at the moment 2 out of every 3 rural schools have no heating (and won't have because the funding isn't there to buy the fuel), and winter is knocking at the door... So we have all been lured into becoming asset rich but cash poor. Now we are at the verge of being made asset poor. National resources are being sold off, personal assets are being repossessed. Bottom line, the vast majority of people end up with neither money nor assets, the elite ends up with both. People are beginning to realize, and this realization must be nipped in the bud. The national and international blackmail machine is already in full swing. Hedgefunds and other financial "giants" are queueing up to tell us that they have/will stop investing in Greece, unless we tow the line and vote correctly. There are serious allegations of bribery by ND of independent MPs in order to buy the votes. Figures of 3 million EACH have been mentioned, and proof has been delivered to the investigators. Will they act? Probably not. Putting the GD deputies in jail was a good thing, but for the wrong reasons. The number of votes to get a president elected is a percentage of the total amount of votes. With GD out of the way, that total amount is less, so the Samaras share of the vote is artificially increased. No flies on those guys...
    They have also just hung out the sacrifical lamb, ex finance minister Giorgos Papaconstantinou, a political has-been is to stand trial for sitting on and tampering with the "Lagarde List". The real culprit in this, Venizelos, current deputy PM and minister for foreign affairs walks free and throws his consideralbe weight around... Figures are being doctored like there is no tomorrow. Exceptional figures on tourism are being bandied about, but the question on how much these tourists spend per capita was not allowed to be asked in parliament. All we get to hear is that we had 52 million tourist more during the summer. About 75% of that is accounted for by cruises, herds of tourist cattle that don't spend (other than on the ship), but swell the figures. Officially unemployemnt has fallen. But nobody mentions that emigration has risen by more units than unemployment has fallen by...
    The elite are running scared, and will use every dirty trick in the book, and I mean every durty trick in order to stop a change of government in Greece. They know that if one domino falls, the rest goes with it. And this cannot be allowed, not with Italy at the verge of going under, France rapidly heading in the same direction, ditto with Spain. If Tsipras is allowed to gain the upper hand, the 5 Star movement, Podemos, Earth Party etc will all benefit enormously from this and that will create an unstoppable tide of change. It is not going to be allowed to happen....

    And even if it does, I have my doubts if Tsipras will be able to pull it off. After all, the government has, through its work with the Troika, gagged the next government and already holds them hostage. That is why Tsipras keeps saying that whatever this government agrees will not be considered binding for him or SYRIZA. And that is being twisted into telling everybody that he intends to default, leave the Euro and the EU. There are already articles appearing warning people that if they don't vote correctly, and put Tsipras in power, then the first thing he will do is sign a deal with Putin and become part of the new Russian economic block. Russia is often referred to as the USSR in those scare mongering articles.
    From where I am, I can see the naval base of Souda Bay. Over the last few days, many warships have been arriving. There is also a serious increase in airforce activity from the Akrotiri base (USA) above Souda. Plenty of fuel for this, the kids can wear extra jumpers...People elsewhere tell us that there is a lot of activity in military camps and bases around the country, and I can't help but wonder...

    Supposing Tsipras does, against all odds get elected, and lives to tell the tale, I believe he will not be able to accomplish what needs doing. He, and SYRIZA, are only the first, very necessary step. What needs doing here in this country is a serious clearing of the decks. The political elite, currently running the country into the ground, must be removed completely. Destroyed is more accurate. Wiped of the face of the earth, never to be seen again. That is the only, and most vital reform that must happen now, and not just in Greece. Then, and only then, will there be room for improvement. That SYRIZA is capable of doing, and I think that is all they will be able to do. But it is vital. A Tsipras victory would give others the momentum to do the same in their countries, to their current elites. Will that improvement happen? Only if we manage to prevent another elite, foreign or locally grown, from taking over. And that is up to the electorate to ensure that that doesn't happen. The electorate must learn very fast that it has a serious role to play in all of this, a lot more than just the 1.3 seconds it takes to tick a box on a ballot. If the elctorate does not take its responsibility and takes control of politics, then no matter what happens, it will be in vain...
    Last edited by Ephilant; 11-12-2014 at 04:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Greek Presidential election called for next week, 2 full months ahead of schedule. What is Samaras up to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephilant View Post
    The way I see this is as the final step in a concerted effort to kill all opposition to TROIKA imposed, government executed policy. The pattern is really clear. First, people everywhere got lured with "cheap money", little or no regulation, checks or controls on the system. There is one incident here of a man earning 160 a week, getting a mortgage for a house worth 350K, and using that house a colateral to get another 6 mortgages, 3 from the same bank! Do you blame the guy, or the regulators and bankers?
    The money gets invested in assets. Along comes 2008, and the money tree is chopped down, people find themselves suddenly cash poor, unable to service their loans and any other financial commitments they may have. So are governments. In Greece at the moment 2 out of every 3 rural schools have no heating (and won't have because the funding isn't there to buy the fuel), and winter is knocking at the door... So we have all been lured into becoming asset rich but cash poor. Now we are at the verge of being made asset poor. National resources are being sold off, personal assets are being repossessed. Bottom line, the vast majority of people end up with neither money nor assets, the elite ends up with both. People are beginning to realize, and this realization must be nipped in the bud. The national and international blackmail machine is already in full swing. Hedgefunds and other financial "giants" are queueing up to tell us that they have/will stop investing in Greece, unless we tow the line and vote correctly. There are serious allegations of bribery by ND of independent MPs in order to buy the votes. Figures of 3 million EACH have been mentioned, and proof has been delivered to the investigators. Will they act? Probably not. Putting the GD deputies in jail was a good thing, but for the wrong reasons. The number of votes to get a president elected is a percentage of the total amount of votes. With GD out of the way, that total amount is less, so the Samaras share of the vote is artificially increased. No flies on those guys...
    They have also just hung out the sacrifical lamb, ex finance minister Giorgos Papaconstantinou, a political has-been is to stand trial for sitting on and tampering with the "Lagarde List". The real culprit in this, Venizelos, current deputy PM and minister for foreign affairs walks free and throws his consideralbe weight around... Figures are being doctored like there is no tomorrow. Exceptional figures on tourism are being bandied about, but the question on how much these tourists spend per capita was not allowed to be asked in parliament. All we get to hear is that we had 52 million tourist more during the summer. About 75% of that is accounted for by cruises, herds of tourist cattle that don't spend (other than on the ship), but swell the figures. Officially unemployemnt has fallen. But nobody mentions that emigration has risen by more units than unemployment has fallen by...
    The elite are running scared, and will use every dirty trick in the book, and I mean every durty trick in order to stop a change of government in Greece. They know that if one domino falls, the rest goes with it. And this cannot be allowed, not with Italy at the verge of going under, France rapidly heading in the same direction, ditto with Spain. If Tsipras is allowed to gain the upper hand, the 5 Star movement, Podemos, Earth Party etc will all benefit enormously from this and that will create an unstoppable tide of change. It is not going to be allowed to happen....

    And even if it does, I have my doubts if Tsipras will be able to pull it off. After all, the government has, through its work with the Troika, gagged the next government and already holds them hostage. That is why Tsipras keeps saying that whatever this government agrees will not be considered binding for him or SYRIZA. And that is being twisted into telling everybody that he intends to default, leave the Euro and the EU. There are already articles appearing warning people that if they don't vote correctly, and put Tsipras in power, then the first thing he will do is sign a deal with Putin and become part of the new Russian economic block. Russia is often referred to as the USSR in those scare mongering articles.
    From where I am, I can see the naval base of Souda Bay. Over the last few days, many warships have been arriving. There is also a serious increase in airforce activity from the Akrotiri base (USA) above Souda. Plenty of fuel for this, the kids can wear extra jumpers...People elsewhere tell us that there is a lot of activity in military camps and bases around the country, and I can't help but wonder...

    Supposing Tsipras does, against all odds get elected, and lives to tell the tale, I believe he will not be able to accomplish what needs doing. He, and SYRIZA, are only the first, very necessary step. What needs doing here in this country is a serious clearing of the decks. The political elite, currently running the country into the ground, must be removed completely. Destroyed is more accurate. Wiped of the face of the earth, never to be seen again. That is the only, and most vital reform that must happen now, and not just in Greece. Then, and only then, will there be room for improvement. That SYRIZA is capable of doing, and I think that is all they will be able to do. But it is vital. A Tsipras victory would give others the momentum to do the same in their countries, to their current elites. Will that improvement happen? Only if we manage to prevent another elite, foreign or locally grown, from taking over. And that is up to the electorate to ensure that that doesn't happen. The electorate must learn very fast that it has a serious role to play in all of this, a lot more than just the 1.3 seconds it takes to tick a box on a ballot. If the elctorate does not take its responsibility and takes control of politics, then no matter what happens, it will be in vain...
    This applies, in general terms, to all of Europe.

    There are many parallels with Ireland.

    I'm very much of the persuasion that for right i,e, the majority- to prevail, there needs co-operation across borders. There is no obvious way to make this happen, but perhaps even having conversations like this is one way.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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