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Thread: Germany moving Left?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by pluralist View Post
    Your 'reds-under-the-beds' shtick is tiresome, change the record.
    Tell that the Germans...

    Their state security agency (Bundesamt fuer Verfassungsschutz) was scrutinising Die Linke for subversive activities since the party's foundation and the PDS before that. Although surveillance of their MPs officially ceased in 2015 some German states still uphold that policy to this day.

    More here.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 17-05-2017 at 04:05 PM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Tell that the Germans...

    Their state security agency (Bundesamt fuer Verfassungsschutz) was scrutinising Die Linke for subversive activities since the party's foundation and the PDS before that. Although surveillance of their MPs officially ceased in 2015 some German states still uphold that policy to this day.

    More here.
    That's an interesting link, though not necessarily in the way you assume.

    It could show us that the NATO Operation Gladio 'stay behind' networks were potentially still in place until 2015 (or maybe still are).
    Last edited by pluralist; 17-05-2017 at 05:19 PM.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    "Operation Gladio", really? What about the old "stay behind" NKWD (later KGB) (now FSB) / Stasi networks?

    NATO certainly hasn't invented this strategy... I recommend the history of the most successful spy network in World War II, known as the "Red Orchestra", a term coined by their German foes, the Gestapo. Not so much Anne Nelson's recent book which takes a rather "touchy-feely" approach focused on the Berlin cell* of this network and its American members but rather the works of French journalist Gilles Perault in the 1960s. This Bolshevik network, conceived in the 1920s, spanning all of Western Europe, and brought to perfection by Leopold Trepper, a Polish Jew, employing people from all walks of life (factory workers, soldiers, secretaries, business men, exiled Russian aristocrats, you name it... though many of them unknowingly and yet they've paid with their lives) contributed immensely to the downfall of the Third Reich... and had Western intelligence agencies scared [email protected] for decades after the war. An amazing story really...

    * they were actually honoured as heroes in the GDR while they were loathed as traitors in West Germany where they preferred to idolise Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg and his general staff pals (who achieved literally sweet eff all) as the "one and only true resistance".
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 18-05-2017 at 01:45 AM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    The only country in Central Europe in which an actual Communist party has any sort of popular base is the Czech Republic where their support base is between 15-20%.

    It is also the only country that elected Communists to govt. as a major party after WW2 if memory serves, before they took over the whole apparatus there. They currently lead the Czech opposition.

    Don't expect leftwing politics much in this day and age, but it can be found here and there in larger numbers. The governing CSSD and the Greens also have good bases.

    Of course we should also doff our cap to Portugal in this case. Other than those two countries I cannot think of many others. Even Scandinavia is a bit rightwing nowadays.

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    Even if there was dodgy doings in the PDS at their foundation at least they used the money for the new party and research foundation , etc rather than personal enrichment for which they are to be congratulated ..
    Anyhow one more depressing survey on the NRW election. https://www.thelocal.de/20170516/her...ine-westphalia
    According to this the SPD-Green adminsistration were seen as weak even on their strongest 'card' education and not trusted at all on crime . I feel kinda sorry for them , a question of 'when it rains it pours'. But to a large extent, I think it is the Schroeder 'Agenda 2010' legacy of deep cuts which seriously eroded their base, trust and credibility . So might as well vote CDU or FPD is what some of that base thinks sadly if TINA is inevitable anyway ? The wider question like here is to what extent those cuts were inevitable due globalisation/massive tax evasion/corporate shenangigans and to what extent due corruption of the political class and how can the big picture be turned around? Globally we are all affected now, so we need an internationalist populist leftism than can keep its nerve and see the bigger picture without the excessive reality bending that makes us look lacking credibilty IMO. Not an easy task and it is comparable to that of the original neo-liberals when the social liberal to social democrat era was born after WW2.
    Last edited by GregTimo; 20-05-2017 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #81
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregTimo View Post
    I feel kinda sorry for them
    Don't... the history of the German Social Democrats is one of treason and betrayal.

    It was the Social Democrats who paved the way for WWI when they voted in favour of "war credits" in 1914. After the war, Chancellor Ebert (SPD) and his cronies were complicit in the killings of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht... and on and on it goes. In their 2013 election campaign they vowed to remove Merkel from power and when they did get the opportunity to do so they bent over and became Merkel's lackeys once again.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Don't... the history of the German Social Democrats is one of treason and betrayal.

    It was the Social Democrats who paved the way for WWI when they voted in favour of "war credits" in 1914. After the war, Chancellor Ebert (SPD) and his cronies were complicit in the killings of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht... and on and on it goes. In their 2013 election campaign they vowed to remove Merkel from power and when they did get the opportunity to do so they bent over and became Merkel's lackeys once again.
    That sounds a bit like the Irish Labour party...though the LP doesn't sound quite as bad....treason and betrayal definitely fit well.

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Germany moving Left?

    The history of most politics is one of 'treason and betrayal' depressingly and why does a seeming Merkel fan to (with a confused anarchist alter-ego?) care about that particular case?

    Anyhow came across this from The European Left's journal (Die Linke being a key member of course) written (by RLS-ers) in sombre terms before NRW but relevant I think
    http://www.transform-network.net/pub...y-sets-course/

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