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Thread: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

  1. #1
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    Default Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-28845998
    "Pope lifts beatification ban on Salvadoran Oscar Romero"

    Romero is still a dangerous man for the established church in countries such as Ireland where the church is fearlessly on the side of privilege and conservatism. There are religious people who could and should make common cause with socialists but in Ireland are out-shouted by the US-funded right-wing fundamentalists.

    “I will not tire of declaring that if we truly want an effective end to the violence, we must eliminate the violence that lies at the root of all violence: structural violence, social injustice, the exclusion of citizens from the management of the country, repression." Sound man Oscar!

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Indeed a great voice and fighter for the poorest of Salvadoreños. Interesting move by the Argentine, trying to shore up Catholocism in Central and northern South America against the growing secularism of the dominant left?

    Or maybe just righting a historical wrong and thus proving that he really is not part of the ultra-right faction which has ruled the vatican for so long.

    Wiki for more info.

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Great post Binn Beal

    I think Ogiol hit the nail on the proverbial head there in his first point

    I’ve long detached from the Catholic Church but I can’t help rooting for elements in the RC who empathise with the poor, Daniel Berrigan, Peter McVerry, Stan Kennedy.

    And I enjoy the ongoing activities of Catholic Worker Movement. The school of thought within Catholicism called Liberation Theology is closer to any professed bare-foot, itinerant preacher in Classical era Palestine than the princely bishops and the system that keeps them in privilege.

    It’s rare these days but if I find myself in the company of some devoted Catholic – I will endeavour to turn the conversation to poverty and suffering just to test them, and if necessary discomfort them, in a nice way of course.

    That’s a great quote – one of the best – by Hélder Câmara, I think, “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.”

    As for what Emperor Francis I is doing . . . . . .

    Bergoglio’s decision to lift the ban on the beatification of Óscar Romero is part of a wider movement of the Vatican reconciling itself with the school of thought within Catholicism called Liberation Theology.

    Why is it doing that?

    I think this is just a plain ol’ simple case of appropriating the energy of a movement / idea / personality after the peak of the idea etc.

    While Liberation Theology has been not quite neutralised the “threat” the very wealthy Catholic Church felt has been removed. And the clergy and its hangers on did feel scarred sh!tless about the prospects of socialist revolution.

    The ecclesiastical hierarchy resident in a country has always suffered in a political revolution in that country. From our perspective today, a cursory look back at history could lead to the conclusion that the Moscow-centric hemisphere was destined to fall apart. But from the perspective of right-slap-bang in the middle of the things at the time the powers-that-be had every reason to be a little nervous. That nervousness led to (for example) blocking the process that would lead to Romero being made a saint.

    Other examples of power centres appropriating the energy of a movement / idea / personality after it has been rendered safe can be seen in the Irish state commemorating the proclamation of the Irish Republic in 1916.

    But that’s slightly off topic – I don’t want to give hostage to fortune – let me stick with the Catholic Church.

    Francis of Assisi - of which there are some parallels with Romero (vis-à-vis the Vatican). He was never ordained a priest and enjoyed an at-times tense relationship with the official church in his lifetime. After he died the Vatican were keen to tap some of the huge folk adoration that Francis of Assisi had generated. Pope Gregory IX ordered a Basilica to be built in the town of Assisi after his canonization in 1228. The Pope declared the church to be the property of the papacy, thus wedding the Franciscan Order to the Catholic Church for all time.

    There are other examples, one that is analogous with Francis of Assisi. The Tsarist state made a grab for the legacy of a one of those wandering monks in Orthodox Christianity. A man - remembered as Blessed Basil of Moscow - whose lifestyle was that of a beggar challenged the emperor remembered as Ivan the Terrible but ended up being commemorated in a basilica. Reminiscent of Robin Hood in a way, Basil stole from businesses in Moscow and gave to the poor – this way shaming the rich and feeding the hungry. When he died a state funeral was arranged, given his popularity, with Ivan the Terrible himself helping to carry his coffin to the cemetery. The cathedral built in Red Square in Moscow by Ivan to celebrate some territorial conquest or other was named after Basil - Saint Basil's Cathedral - linking this hugely popular figure to the state.

    This topic is dealt with in a book called “Sign of Contradiction” by Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul the 2nd), which appeared in English in 1979. It is verbose (says he who is still typing) and convoluted nonsense about how someone who manifests holiness is subject to extreme opposition during their lifetime.

    On the topic of the clergy in this country identifying with the wealthy . . . . Over the last year I read “Father John Kenyon The Rebel Priest” by Tim Boland (2011). great book !

    There are examples of priests like him but these are not even acknowledged by Armagh never mind celebrated.
    Sss-hh. Don’t mention the lack of sovereignty in the Irish state.
    The acknowledgement of the 1916 Rising by the Establishment and its nauseating, craven lackeys is simply a political convenience devoid of any real meaning!

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    I think this is a great move on a number of different fronts, and despite not being a Catholic, as a Christian, I have a lot of respect for Francis. He lives a modest life and appears to be on the side of the poor, bless him. And I'm all for beatification of Romero. He's got the martyrdom qualification, for starters.




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    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Is there any sign of a shift in the Irish Catholic Church away from Maynooth rule and towards the basic tenets of christianity - helping the sick, defending the poor and that sort of thing? Peter McVerry and Stan Kennedy, as mentioned above, do spring to mind but I wonder if they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    I'd pray the same for Rasputin or Rasputin-Novyi [as he preferred to be known]
    Happiness is an inside job.

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Quote Originally Posted by Binn Beal View Post
    Is there any sign of a shift in the Irish Catholic Church away from Maynooth rule and towards the basic tenets of christianity - helping the sick, defending the poor and that sort of thing? Peter McVerry and Stan Kennedy, as mentioned above, do spring to mind but I wonder if they are the exceptions that prove the rule.
    Oh, yes, please! Well, Francis and Diarmuid Martin seem to be setting good examples, so far. We live in hope.




    "The floggings will continue until morale improves"
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Oscar Romero - the Roman Catholic archbishop murdered during the 1980-92 civil war - has been beatified at a ceremony in El Salvador attended by huge crowds.

    At least 250,000 people have filled the streets of the capital San Salvador for the ceremony.

    It is the last step before Archbishop Romero is declared a saint.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-32859627

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Can anyone recommend a book about Liberation Theology? 'm my reading about Latin America it is referenced in passing a lot but I've yet to read a decent analysis and description of the nuts and bolts of this ideology.

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Gutierrez was the main man. Maybe try this ...

    https://www.amazon.com/Side-Poor-The.../dp/1626981159
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Murdered Marxist bishop makes a come-back

    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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