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Thread: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    [QUOTE=Spectabilis;396827]
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Yes, even earlier too... generally they try as hard as possible to not deliver before 25 weeks.[/QUOTE]

    If there is truth to the ST headline, that is exactly what they did. They delayed while termination was possible and then performed the Caesarean at the lowest limit of viability.
    Under the law termination is legal at any stage if that's what the doctors "conclave" decide.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    I didn't mention legality, but viability.

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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Sunday Times saying they were working on the story all week

    That Mark Tighe is quoting the woman suggests someone, HSE?, leaked to the indo ahead of their story
    Last edited by Dr. FIVE; 16-08-2014 at 10:38 PM.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectabilis View Post
    I didn't mention legality, but viability.
    I misunderstood when you said "They delayed while termination was possible"... it was just as possible at 25 weeks as it was a week earlier. (or however long the delay was, if there was any). That was the point I was making.

    Many people will be of the opinion that the "viability" of the unborn in cases like this, rape, is irrelevant.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    Sunday Times saying they were working on the story all week

    That Mark Tighe is quoting the woman suggests someone, HSE?, leaked to the indo ahead of their story
    Maybe so. A smart piece of spin in that's the case, set the agenda with the information that mother and child are both alive. Useful for them to get that information out there before anything else.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    The baby may well not make it, 25 weeks is still very dodgy from a viability point of view. Even chance of making it out of the NICU without long term disability, even if it survives.
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    But alas, our legislation is only concerned with threats to life and not to health.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    The baby may well not make it, 25 weeks is still very dodgy from a viability point of view. Even chance of making it out of the NICU without long term disability, even if it survives.
    I did some reading about this a while ago, and if I recall, 7 or 8 out of ten babies born at 24/25 weeks survive. 1/3 will grow up with no problems, 1/3 will have mild or moderate problems, and the final third severe. Of course thats on average and it depends on the specifics of a situation.
    The United Irishman. Updated 5/2/14

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    All a bit academic anyway given that even fatal foetal abnormalities are not provided for.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    on the Sunday Times site now, though I have no sub


    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1447800.ece
    A WOMAN who became pregnant as a result of rape believes the state denied her access to an abortion for months, until the foetus became viable. Earlier this month, the baby was delivered prematurely through a Caesarean section, which was authorised under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act.

    The young woman, a foreign national with limited English, was not able freely to travel abroad for an abortion because of her legal status in Ireland.

    She discovered she was expecting about eight weeks into the pregnancy, and immediately sought an abortion because she had been the victim of a traumatic rape. Months later, the woman believed she had been effectively refused an abortion, or the ability to travel abroad for such a procedure, by the state. She then went on a hunger and liquid strike
    also says a High Court order prohibits full details being reported

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectabilis View Post
    The information on this is very sketchy still, but my initial impression is of forced, compulsory birth. A terrible prospect. A terrible law. I am glad both are alive, but 'well'? that remains to be seen. I wish them both well.

    Appalling altogether..unless the reality is different from the reports. Something was said on the radio about her not wanting the caesarean ?

    The woman has been put through protracted trauma and risk, and the foetus required to develope into a viable baby then also put at risk.

    Perhaps this is not what happened, but if it is, there are dangerous lunatics at large in the legal and health systems.

    Whatever considerations are at the heart of this system, the welfare of the woman and the foetus / baby are at the bottom of the heap.

    A WOMAN who became pregnant as a result of rape believes the state denied her access to an abortion for months, until the foetus became viable. Earlier this month, the baby was delivered prematurely through a Caesarean section, which was authorised under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act.
    The young woman, a foreign national with limited English, was not able freely to travel abroad for an abortion because of her legal status in Ireland.
    She discovered she was expecting about eight weeks into the pregnancy, and immediately sought an abortion because she had been the victim of a traumatic rape. Months later, the woman believed she had been effectively refused an abortion, or the ability to travel abroad for such a procedure, by the state. She then went on a hunger and liquid strike.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 17-08-2014 at 01:49 PM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    [QUOTE=Saoirse go Deo;396828]
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectabilis View Post

    Under the law termination is legal at any stage if that's what the doctors "conclave" decide.
    I have always pointed out the iniquity of that. The idea that it would be possible to "abort" a viable baby is just obscene, but our judiciary have special thinking apparatus that is so abstract that it allows them to overlook the basic tautology. (never mind the inhumanity)
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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  13. #28
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Many people will be of the opinion that the "viability" of the unborn in cases like this, rape, is irrelevant.
    I honestly doubt that. Most women pregnant as a result of rape would I imagine seek an abortion promptly as it seems this woman did. A late abortion would be something that for every reason a woman would want to avoid.

    It is possible that if a child ( 11-14 say) was pregnant and did not understand or recognise it, or was scared to tell, then a very difficult situation could arise of late reporting. It would then be a difficult choice even on health grounds, for a number of reasons. But that is not the situation in the case under discussion.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    Forced hydration, Forced surgery and Rape but its all ok because the new legislation is working.

    Joanna Tuffy LABOUR TD :-

    Labour Party deputy Joanna Tuffy told the Sunday Independent that she hoped the case reassured people that there were checks and balances and a safety net in place in the legislation.
    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Sui...-new-laws.html

    Furthermore two Psychiatrists determined abortion should be allowed due to suicide risk but were over-ruled by Obstetrician. How does that work ?
    Thomas Jefferson : Banking Establishments are More Dangerous to our Liberties than Standing Armies.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Pregnant woman refused abortion gives birth by Caesarean

    I have been trying to piece together a timeline from the scanty reporting at this point:

    From http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1447800.ece

    Early May (?) woman requests termination

    'Months later' she goes on hunger strike believing she has been refused not only termination but right to travel

    Aug 2 HSE brings emergency ex-parte application to high court looking for right to forcibly rehydrate and to carry out 'certain medical procedures'
    Order granted.

    Aug 9th (?) in court again with 2 teams representing woman and foetus
    Section 9 Certificate (allowing medical procedure for reasons of suicide risk) had been issued by psychologists and obstetrician

    August 10th (? ) Caesarian performed

    Third court hearing after 10th. Purpose not given.


    There are considerable disparities with the report in the Irish Independent which states that she discovered she was pregnant in the second trimester and that after the first court hearing she agreed to allow the Caesarian to go ahead.


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30513416.html
    Last edited by Spectabilis; 17-08-2014 at 03:16 PM.

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