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Thread: Commemorating WW1

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I think words like "sacrifice" and "commemoration" are entirely out of place.
    I wonder if RTÉ "commemorates" the Irish soldiers who were "shot at dawn" by the Brits for military offenses.

    IIRC, the figure was exceptionally high compared to other ethnic groups and the size of their respective contingents.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    And sometime people forget that the actual war for Irish freedom [32 Counties] has'nt been won yet.
    "War is Over...if you want it!".. John Lennon
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    "War is Over...if you want it!".. John Lennon
    No, riposte.....only the strategy has changed.
    Happiness is an inside job.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1


  5. #20
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Great article from Seumas Milne on Israel in today's Guardian contains this observation:

    David Cameron claims it [WWI] was fought for freedom. In reality, it was a savage industrial slaughter perpetrated by a gang of imperial powers to carve up territories, markets and resources.

    Far from defending democracy or the rights of small nations, Britain and France ended the war divvying up the defeated German and Ottoman empires between them, from Iraq to Palestine. A century on, we’re still living with the consequences.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...estern-support

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quite a good piece by Martina Devlin in the Indo:

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...-30489002.html

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    Well I guess the Belgians who fought the German invader in the first two weeks of the War without any assistance from elsewhere .... were fighting for their country.

    Ireland is not the only country in the history of the world ..... that fought for its freedom.
    Hang on just a second now. Belgium was an imperial power with imperial interests, just like the others. The fact it was a small imperial power does not change that fact.

    You may just as well say Congolese men serving in that army, if indeed there were any left able to serve again Belgium was through murdering and traumatising and stealing from them, were somehow fighting for the promise of some limited Freedom. A Congolese man would be ashamed of any retrospective endorsement of Belgian rule, and we ought to feel that way here too.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    That is an excellent point, Riposte, the survivors of WW1 were battle hardened veterans handily delivered back home with the experience to lend Michael C a useful helping hand. Any figures on how many fought and whether that was likely to have swung it for Collins?
    Well, that should give Republicans an interesting reason to commemorate WW1 😉
    Collins did not win the war, lest we forget. It was a stalemate. Arguably the best he could do, but he didn't win.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    I wonder if RTÉ "commemorates" the Irish soldiers who were "shot at dawn" by the Brits for military offenses.

    IIRC, the figure was exceptionally high compared to other ethnic groups and the size of their respective contingents.
    Interesting. more info please???

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Interesting. more info please???
    Irish troops in the British Army appear to have been treated with particular harshness. They constituted just two per cent of the membership of the force, yet they were the recipients of eight per cent of all death sentences imposed by its courts-martial.
    Wiki

    26 have since been retroactively pardoned.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    I've often thought about how the Irish Volunteers were treated by the Ulster Volunteers in the trenches. In the days before the outbreak of World War 1 they were poised to do battle with each other in a Civil War.

    And then there were the colonial Asian and African soldiers fighting under Britain and France.......for their freedom. And ours we're told.

    I've little doubt although i was'nt there at the time, that many men there had cause to ponder the real meaning of freedom when faced with the choice of climbing up out of a trench into almost certain death or be shot dead anyway.

    Slaves to a war machine.
    Happiness is an inside job.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    They weren't told such nonsense as "fighting for freedom", back in the day it was all about "King and country". And most of the Irish volunteers volunteered for what they usually volunteer for: money. In 1918 the Brits tried to introduce conscription but that didn't go down all that well.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    I've often thought about how the Irish Volunteers were treated by the Ulster Volunteers in the trenches.
    "I am sorry that party politics should ever divide our own tents but am not without hope that a new Ireland will emerge form her ashes in the ruins of Dublin like the Phoenix with one purpose one aim and one ambition. I will tell you this in order that you may know what it is to me to be called a British soldier while my own country has no place amongst the nations but the place of Cinderella."

    Francis Ledwidge 1917.


    One of Ledwidge's closest comrades at the front........ was one Bob Christie ....... a Northern Unionist.
    Last edited by riposte; 08-08-2014 at 03:42 PM.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    "I am sorry that party politics should ever divide our own tents but am not without hope that a new Ireland will emerge form her ashes in the ruins of Dublin like the Phoenix with one purpose one aim and one ambition. I will tell you this in order that you may know what it is to me to be called a British soldier while my own country has no place amongst the nations but the place of Cinderella."

    Francis Ledwidge 1917.


    One of Ledwidge's closest comrades at the front........ was one Bob Christie ....... a Northern Unionist.
    I think when placed in such a unique environment that is trench warfare, you'd come to know the man beside you.

    Same with Prison/Slave camps.

    Were Ledwidge and Christie acquainted prior to the outbreak of war?
    Happiness is an inside job.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Collins did not win the war, lest we forget. It was a stalemate. Arguably the best he could do, but he didn't win.
    As with the Provos in the North ...... Collins brought the overlord to the negotiating table.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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