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Thread: Commemorating WW1

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    One of the things I got from it was that every armed body of the day to some extent depended on ex-WW1 soldiers from the British army - the UVF, the Black and Tans (of course), the Irish Volunteers, the IRA, and the Free State Army.
    However, the IRA took on small numbers and there was a lot of suspicion of these recruits, including Barry himself. The Free State Army took on a much greater number of ex-WW1 soldiers and some ex-IRA left the army over this.

    A considerable number of "revenge" (presumed Republican) shootings of soldiers who fought with the British Army is mentioned - not much mentioned in the recent "commemorations."
    This was covered in the last of Miles Dungan's programmes on WW1. The point was made that at the beginning of the Civil War, the Free State army was considerably smaller in numbers than the Anti-Treaty forces. There was wholesale recruitment of British ex-servicemen to boost up the Free State Army numbers. This was critical to the winning of the Civil War. Numbers of ex-servicemen joining the IRA was said to be 155 with many thousands joining the Free State army and the police (and some other parts of the civil service).
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #152
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    C. Flower
    ]"I do think that RTE's coverage is a form of cultural grooming and has been devised as part of a strategy for management of 2016"
    - Richard Bouvet
    PW, I agree that there is a certain slant in RTEs coverage of the war, but it is a leap from there to saying, as you seem to do, that RTE is part of a conspiracy to undermine the 1916 centenary and/or soften us ip for new imperialist involvements.
    It is more likely that RTE's bias is unintentional. They are simply reflecting the orthodoxies that have gradually taken hold.
    My view that the bias is both conscious, and an expression of deliberate manipulation for political reasons, is borne out by the information below. If you want to call it a conspiracy, then by all means do so.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...ndee-1.1756399

    In the foreign office in London yesterday, Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore said the commemorations, all of them to come over the next few years, had been discussed at length by the two governments.
    “Both the British and Irish governments are conscious that we should do this together and commemorate the things that we share together; this is a shared history,” he said, as he stood beside British foreign secretary William Hague.

    Hague, a historian of note in his own right, agreed: “With all these very important centenaries coming up over the next four years, it is very important for us to commemorate these things together in a way that helps to bring people together for the future.”

    Asked if his remarks specifically covered the Easter Rising anniversary, he told The Irish Times : “All the events of that period. Remember how many lives were lost in so many conflicts around the world . . .with all of them, including the Easter Rising, it is important to remember those principles.”
    Last edited by C. Flower; 06-09-2014 at 06:23 PM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Any commemoration of WW1 should be strictly non-military. Thus stripping the possibility of justification of what was in modern terms an oligarchs' war. But as has been posted above, there is a huge on-going effort at the minute to somehow legitimise the war through the optic of remembering the soldiers. The soldiers should be commemorated but the leaders and empire symbols should not.

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    There will be Irish government representation at the Cenotaph for the first time this year.

    n a sign of improving Anglo-Irish relations, the Republic of Ireland’s ambassador to the UK, Dan Mulhall, will officially attend the main remembrance ceremony next month.Mulhall’s presence at Whitehall will be in honour of the thousands of Irishmen who fought and died in Britain’s armed forces in both world wars.
    Sajid Javid, the UK’s secretary of state for culture, media and sport, said: “Throughout the first world war, Irish servicemen stood side by side with men and women from across Great Britain and the Commonwealth.
    “As we commemorate the centenary of the start of the war, it is right we remember our nations’ shared sacrifice.”
    Ireland’s ambassador said he was pleased to accept the invitation to join the Queen and other dignitaries on 9 November.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...emembrance-day

  5. #155
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    How come I'm seeing this story on the BBC and in the Guardian but not in any of the Irish media?

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    How come I'm seeing this story on the BBC and in the Guardian but not in any of the Irish media?
    Good question; I don't know the answer; Budget day hysteria pushing everything else off ye front pages?
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

  7. #157
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    The Irish Government last weekend sent a representative for the first time ever to lay a poppy wreath at the base of the bloody memorial of British imperialism and militarism, in Whitehall, in front of Queen Elizabeth in her role as head of the armed forces.

    Ger Colleran this morning is giving out stink about RTE and the Government's glorification, sanitisation and promotion of war via the World War One brainwashing exercise.

    He shut Kevin Myers up for once.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  8. #158
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Just reading Vera Brittain's very interesting "Testament of Youth", which has pointed me in the direction of the Etaples mutiny, starting in September 1917, just before the October Revolution in Russia. It rolled on for over a year.

    This article is well worth reading, and also touches on the fact that British soldiers were being sent to fight Soviet Russia in 1919, and also on the many deaths of Chinese and other non-European Labour units (part of the armed forces) who were shot for striking.

    http://www.militarian.com/threads/mu...-in-1917.7050/

    The whole thing was kept completely out of the Press - surely something not possible today given modern communications ??
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #159
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Four years on from when this thread was started, there is a muted hurrah! for WW1 coming from the Irish establishment and various groups of holdout West Brits wanting to 'commemorate' the ghastly slaughter of WW1.

    "The National", Scottish Nationalist online journal, gives the rundown on how WW1 was brought to an end by masses of soldiers putting down their arms and heading home. An end came, in this particular war, of obscene slaughter of groups of young men in mechanised warfare, being fought over which group of oligarchs of which nation would control which colonies, and which supplies of oil.



    ofbclid=IwAR04FgaGI9LndSenD5L6_8HrdbLEjm-9i0Byv0VNo_Itm3SnWUwhh6XeGBA
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  10. #160
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    Reading the first page of the thread was interesting.
    Let's just honor those who died in vain........
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Commemorating WW1

    I'm optimistic for the future at least as it concerns war between the US and China. You might be surprised about how much discussion there is in US think tanks and foreign policy journals about the dangers of the US falling into the Thucydides's Trap with China.


    To prevent war with China, study World War I ... Graham Allison, the Douglas Dillon professor of government at Harvard Kennedy School, for the WashPost:

    • "The ... structural cause of World War I follows a familiar historical pattern: a rapidly rising power, Germany, challenging the primacy of an established one, Great Britain, which had ruled the world for a century."
    • "In this dangerous dynamic — the Thucydides’s Trap — both rivals become extremely vulnerable to third-party provocations, or even accidents, that trigger a cascade of reactions, at the end of which they find themselves in a war neither wanted."
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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