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Thread: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

  1. #16
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    Default Re: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    While the Ukrainian army try a wee spot of indiscriminate shelling with a view to ethnic cleansing of Moskals and revive the spirit of Hitler....whoops, Stepan Bandera while waving Wolfsangels and Swastika armbands. Not to mention hushing up ATC records after a horrendous air incident and ensuring their own journalists are all airing the same propaganda

    Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
    YOu keep saying that, Morticia, and I do not believe you are right. But that's just me, I guess.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    G.B. looking to put a stop to Germany's rise as an industrial and colonial power.
    Seriously? When Germany appeared on the scene, there was not much left to be colonised. They literally had to ask permission in London if it was OK with His Majesty's Government before they claimed anything and they certainly did rely on British naval protection for their colonial endeavours. If the Brits really wanted to put an end to that, that could have done it a heartbeat. If there were any colonial disputes, Great Britain usually stepped in as the referee for this was the time when Britannia truly ruled the waves.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Seriously? When Germany appeared on the scene, there was not much left to be colonised. They literally had to ask permission in London if it was OK with His Majesty's Government before they claimed anything and they certainly did rely on British naval protection for their colonial endeavours. If the Brits really wanted to put an end to that, that could have done it a heartbeat. If there were any colonial disputes, Great Britain usually stepped in as the referee for this was the time when Britannia truly ruled the waves.
    Soon to change. After WW1, the US ruled the waves.

    Colonialism doesn't stop when there's a division of the spoils. We are seeing a big push to splice and dice and redistribute them all over again, globally in the early 21st century.

    The US won't be happy until it has the lot, including Europe.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  4. #19
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    Default Re: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Soon to change.
    True enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    After WW1, the US ruled the waves.
    Not quite, that took a little longer. The total sell-out of the British Empire to the U.S. was Sir Winston Chruchill's "greatest achivement" in WWII. But yes, the Empire began its decline after WWI.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    So the Brits started WWI because they couldn't beat Germany otherwise? Jeez...

    Great Britain was by far the richest nation on the planet, heck, they owned half of it anyway, it had the largest military, it was the world's centre of business, finance and innovation. Their currency was the world standard of value. Compared to them, Germany was a backwater, a non-entity. For every Dreadnought the Germans put to sea, the Brits built three! A finger snap would have sufficed to make anyone think twice before doing business with Germany, such was the might of the British Empire in the early 20th century.

    If someone had said, maybe twas the French because they wanted Lorraine and Alsace back we could have a debate, but this is just crazy. Had the war begun a few years earlier, chances are the Brits would have sided with the Germans.
    Waiting with interest for your views on how and why WW1 started.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #21
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    Default Re: French and German Presidents Dispute Legacy of WW1 - "What Happened to Our European Civilisation"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Waiting with interest for your views on how and why WW1 started.
    Maybe it's important to have a look at who wanted what back then?

    France? They certainly wanted Alsace and Lorraine back. Influence on the Balkans and by extension the Eastern Mediterranean to secure their colonial interests in the Middle East and Northern Africa (where they were clashing with the Brits).

    Russia? Putting an end to the Austro-Hungarian Empire and gain full control over the Bosporus and free access to the Mediterranean. Ah yes, pan-Slavism, great idea but in reality just a means for them to stir up the Balkans and hurt Austria.

    Germany? The Germans were well aware of the French revanchism and wanted to get ahead of them. They were also tired of asking London for permission to claim overseas territories so they had this grandiose idea of building a railway to Baghdad to get access to all the goodies there. Never mind the Kaiser's toy navy, it just was not suitable to sustain and protect far away colonies.

    Great Britain? The British would have loved nothing better than maintaining the status quo. But since it had to be, they acted on Sun Tzu's old adage, "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer," and sided with France and Russia. Make no mistake, the Franco-Russian Alliance was a far greater threat to British interests than Germany.

    Austria-Hungary? Sachertorte... and maybe a little punishment for the Serbs for killing the heir apparent and his missus.

    Italy? Fµck if I know, they surely didn't.

    Turkey? A few British dreadnoughts (already built and paid for) to keep the Rooskies away from the Bosporus. And when the Brits had a change of heart and kept the boats and joined the Entente, what choice did the Turks have but turning to the Germans?

    So guilty parties are most certainly the top three. For Great Britain neutrality was not really an option and never mind the rest.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 05-08-2014 at 11:45 PM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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