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Thread: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Its funny the way that Bin Laden tapes always seem to crop up when the US government needs a littlle scapegoating distraction...
    Last edited by C. Flower; 19-07-2010 at 11:54 AM.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    You're wrong about the murder of other Muslims. The founder of the Muslim Brotherhood was quite specific about it being almost a duty to kill "soft ' Muslims. A kind of " iron in the soul " philosophy.
    Sounds fascist influenced to me.
    The Muslim Brotherhood was cultivated by the US from early days.

  3. #18
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    Well, no, not at all confused, or "Jim Corrish".

    This is what Cook wrote, just after the London bombings in 2005:
    Yeah...there is debate as to the literal translation...so I would not take "data base" as written in stone.

    Re the Muj...yeah the CIA had lists of them, thought most of the dealings were done thro Pakistan's ISI.
    The possibility of blowback was foreseen by some of the CIA officers in Pakistan who were horrified at Charlie Wilson's War and most reticent to be providing the stingers the Muj needed desperately to take down the Soviet Hind Helicopters that were wreaking havoc on the Muj ranks.
    Curiously Wilson and the yanks favourite was none other than Gulbuddin Hekmaytarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbuddin_Hekmatyar
    aa
    Apols Cactus for the Jim Corr ref - 'twas a joke.
    But as Burke Rashid, Fisk et al present it - Al Qaeda was a "base" - not in a physical sense but an ideological one.
    So there is no Emir No in a cave controlling 1,000s of armed battalions.
    It's an ideology.

    And for all those who buy into Bush/Mossad/KGB/IRA/Lehmans/Anglo Irish etc being behind 9/11.

    There is one curious harbinger and that was the assassination of Ahmed Shah Massoud a mere week before 9/11.

    He was two Arab 'journos' who flew into the Panshir on a heli with a crew incl Paris match who got some photos of them and thought they were a bit odd as was their wedding like camera.
    The camera was a bomb and they killed themselves and Massoud.

    1: A big gift to the Taliban -especially if you are about to make life difficult for them.Massoud was the only militsar threat left in the countty.

    2: A major blow to the Yanks. Massoud would have been their immediate choice for a leader.
    Even without him Special Forces were in the Panshir within 48hrs of the attack.

    The two journos were posing as correspondents for a London based paper. They were later exposed as Al Qaeda operatives.

    Bin Laden admitted 9/11.

    Ahmed Rashid has been on this case since the Soviet invasion -he's no fool. Nor is Burke. Or Fisk.

    The Sudanese offered Tim Carney - the then ambassador a deal - normalisation in return for their copious intelligence on Bin Laden incl a possible assasination. Washington ignored the deal from the Islamist regime...much to Carney's (a bright guy) consternation.
    Not everyone in Washington had sussed the threat he represented.

    There was a suggestion of shooting down his plane when Bin Laden was kicked out of Sudan and returned to Afghanistan.
    Clinton thought it was a bit uncool at the time.

    So the appearance of Bin Laden when the yanks are up ****'s creek is bullshit. Not that they don't exploit the fear.

    Clinton, deciding against a ground attack, hit his camp with cruise missile after the African embassy bombings.

    The ideological backdrop came from the head of the muslim brotherhood's Hasan al- Hudaybi - a lonely immigrant in the US who obviously didn't get laid - developed a politics ofd vitriol.

    For the best account of the moral bankruptcy of fundamentalist Islam check out Giles Keppel's superb Jijadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_Kepel

  4. #19
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    Sounds fascist influenced to me.
    The Muslim Brotherhood was cultivated by the US from early days.
    The Muslim Brotherhood was not cultivated by the US. They killed Sadat for God's sake.

  5. #20
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    Thumbs up Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac View Post
    Back in 2004, Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence, explained that Al Qaida is nothing more than a database. How many of the public know this? 99% believe that Al Qaida is a unified terrorist movement under the leadership of Bin Laden dedicated to the destruction of the West. There is a reason for this naturally which Bunel also highlighted:



    Source
    Interesting.
    +1

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    The Muslim Brotherhood was not cultivated by the US. They killed Sadat for God's sake.
    I wrote on this on P.ie. I can't access that site to reference the posts.

    The US generally has fostered marginal and extreme forms of islamic jihadism as a bulwark against communism and resistant national bourgeois governments.

    Indonesia would be one gruesome example.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    You're wrong about the murder of other Muslims. The founder of the Muslim Brotherhood was quite specific about it being almost a duty to kill "soft ' Muslims. A kind of " iron in the soul " philosophy.
    Any many a loyalist christian thought that killing catholics was right. but that does not mean the basis any christian faith is murder. these guys are in a military cult, they are not muslims in any historic sense. I am no great fan of Islam but it is not what these guys claim it is, to say otherwise is dangerous.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  8. #23
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    I wrote on this on P.ie. I can't access that site to reference the posts.

    The US generally has fostered marginal and extreme forms of islamic jihadism as a bulwark against communism and resistant national bourgeois governments.

    Indonesia would be one gruesome example.
    I know. But they had already bought their man in Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood was founded and often ruthlessly repressed. Zahiri, Bin Laden's right hand man being a case in point.
    Not sure if it is still the case, but Egypt followed Israel as biggest receivers of military aid.
    And back in the day when they were not necessarily villains, they scuppered the French Brit Israeli plan to take over the Suez from Nasser

    Elsewhere was different. Curiously the Israelis played the same game ... secretly suporting Hamas in the early days to undermine the PLO>

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    I know. But they had already bought their man in Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood was founded and often ruthlessly repressed. Zahiri, Bin Laden's right hand man being a case in point.
    Not sure if it is still the case, but Egypt followed Israel as biggest receivers of military aid.
    And back in the day when they were not necessarily villains, they scuppered the French Brit Israeli plan to take over the Suez from Nasser

    Elsewhere was different. Curiously the Israelis played the same game ... secretly suporting Hamas in the early days to undermine the PLO>
    Suez was a big moment in terms of nailing the coffin lid down on the British Empire. How was the Muslim Brotherhood involved ?

  10. #25
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    Suez was a big moment in terms of nailing the coffin lid down on the British Empire. How was the Muslim Brotherhood involved ?
    Wasn't .... the secular Nasser was the hero of the day. My point being the yanks had no percentage in assisting the Muslim Brotherhood.

    And re suppressing fundamentalists, the only people who make the Israelis look moderate are the Arabs.
    When the Syrian branch got a bit uppity, Hassad took out some 20,000 in a weekend.

    I dont think there is any big sinister plot lurking behind the US support for the muj.
    "Enemies enemy is my friend" - a philosophy tho that comes with high blowback potential.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    Wasn't .... the secular Nasser was the hero of the day. My point being the yanks had no percentage in assisting the Muslim Brotherhood.

    And re suppressing fundamentalists, the only people who make the Israelis look moderate are the Arabs.
    When the Syrian branch got a bit uppity, Hassad took out some 20,000 in a weekend.

    I dont think there is any big sinister plot lurking behind the US support for the muj.
    "Enemies enemy is my friend" - a philosophy tho that comes with high blowback potential.
    The resurgence of religion is one of the surprises of the early 21st century. In the 1960s, religion was falling away - science and technology was demonstrably changing lives and providing drama - moon landings and speed records, bumper harvest, miracle cures and so on.

    People felt they could control the world and the idea of an all powerful non material being was just not all that interesting.

    At what point, and why, did that change ? Not only do we have these very peculiar modern variants on islam, but also some fairly bizarre forms of Christianity, particularly in the States, and a resurgence in belief in the unexplainable and supernatural.

    Wtf ?

  12. #27
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Curious point, The Arab world missed the industrial revolution. The move from farm to city has occurred primarily in the last 50 years.
    If you look at the occupation or education of worldwide jihadis, you will find a huge percentage of those with degrees in computers, science. engineering etc.
    Not too well versed in the humanities.
    So we have these poor hicks living in the desert version of the dark ages but sted of witches they have sat TV - note with the Taliban banning TV we went back to a long bearded short trousered Salem.
    The boys head to the city and to their consternation find they can't **** the chicks on the 'billboards" and being outside of the elite probably cant get a good job. So they head off to the West - more alienation.More billboards. More sexsual frustration. Would drive a man to murder.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    The Channel 4 broadcaster Alex Thomson who has spent a lot of time in the Middle East and is just about to return from Afghanistan after several weeks there has said Al Qaeda is an idea rather than an organisation.

  14. #29
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by MediaBite View Post
    The Channel 4 broadcaster Alex Thomson who has spent a lot of time in the Middle East and is just about to return from Afghanistan after several weeks there has said Al Qaeda is an idea rather than an organisation.
    Jason Burke's first book says little else. Rashid says the same. Jonathan Randal. Fisk too.

    People Korps makes the point above.

    Mr Thomson sounds like a slow learner.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Who runs Al Qaeda and What is It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    Jason Burke's first book says little else. Rashid says the same. Jonathan Randal. Fisk too.

    People Korps makes the point above.

    Mr Thomson sounds like a slow learner.

    Uhhh???

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