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Thread: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

  1. #2626
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Haha ... it seems like the lunatic right in the US is recycling the same old stories in different garb.

    Have a look at the website of one Henry Makow ... esteemed author of "Illuminati3: Satanic Possession: There is only one Conspiracy".

    Back in 2009 he was running with the "mystery helicopters" story .... except then it was the Taliban being ferried around in them.

    As President Obama ponders whether to send more troops to Afghanistan, there is mounting evidence the Taliban is supported by the CIA. If correct, the Afghan war is a charade with a hidden agenda.

    First, we have many reports that unmarked helicopters are ferrying the Taliban to targets, and relieving them when cornered.

    "Just when the police and army managed to surround the Taliban in a village of Qala-e-Zaal district, we saw helicopters land with support teams," an Afghan soldier said. "They managed to rescue their friends from our encirclement, and even to inflict defeat on the Afghan National Army."
    https://www.henrymakow.com/taliban_s...g_for_the.html

    Same bs ...
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  2. #2627
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    "Sometimes unfortunately things have to be changed in a rather ugly way" Duane McClarridge, former head of CIA.

    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #2628
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Haha ... it seems like the lunatic right in the US is recycling the same old stories in different garb.

    Have a look at the website of one Henry Makow ... esteemed author of "Illuminati3: Satanic Possession: There is only one Conspiracy".

    Back in 2009 he was running with the "mystery helicopters" story .... except then it was the Taliban being ferried around in them.



    https://www.henrymakow.com/taliban_s...g_for_the.html

    Same bs ...
    Well, the pianists have been well and truly shot, but the tune has been not addressed by you at all.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  4. #2629
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Now, if the point being made is to go back to the original source, or as close as possible, I agree with you - so here is one of the reports cannibalised by VT.

    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931204001534 Of course, you may not like Fars News, or share its agenda, but do you suggest this story is invented ? And why would they invent this particular story ?

    TEHRAN (FNA)- Iraq's army has shot down two British planes as they were carrying weapons for the ISIL terrorists in Al-Anbar province, a senior lawmaker disclosed on Monday.

    "The Iraqi Parliament's National Security and Defense Committee has access to the photos of both planes that are British and have crashed while they were carrying weapons for the ISIL," Head of the committee Hakem al-Zameli said, according to a Monday report of the Arabic-language information center of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq.
    He said the Iraqi parliament has asked London for explanations in this regard.
    The senior Iraqi legislator further unveiled that the government in Baghdad is receiving daily reports from people and security forces in al-Anbar province on numerous flights by the US-led coalition planes that airdrop weapons and supplies for ISIL in terrorist-held areas.
    The Iraqi lawmaker further noted the cause of such western aids to the terrorist group, and explained that the US prefers a chaotic situation in Anbar Province which is near the cities of Karbala and Baghdad as it does not want the ISIL crisis to come to an end.
    Earlier today, a senior Iraqi provincial official lashed out at the western countries and their regional allies for supporting Takfiri terrorists in Iraq, revealing that US and Israeli-made weapons have been discovered from the areas purged of ISIL terrorists.
    "We have discovered weapons made in the US, European countries and Israel from the areas liberated from ISIL's control in Al-Baqdadi region," the Al-Ahad news website quoted Head of Al-Anbar Provincial Council Khalaf Tarmouz as saying.
    He noted that the weapons made by the European countries and Israel were discovered from the terrorists in the Eastern parts of the city of Ramadi.
    Al-Zameli had also disclosed in January that the anti-ISIL coalition's planes have dropped weapons and foodstuff for the ISIL in Salahuddin, Al-Anbar and Diyala provinces.
    Al-Zameli underlined that the coalition is the main cause of ISIL's survival in Iraq.
    "There are proofs and evidence for the US-led coalition's military aid to ISIL terrorists through air(dropped cargoes)," he told FNA in January.
    He noted that the members of his committee have already proved that the US planes have dropped advanced weaponry, including anti-aircraft weapons, for the ISIL, and that it has set up an investigation committee to probe into the matter.
    "The US drops weapons for the ISIL on the excuse of not knowing about the whereabouts of the ISIL positions and it is trying to distort the reality with its allegations.
    He noted that the committee had collected the data and the evidence provided by eyewitnesses, including Iraqi army officers and the popular forces, and said, "These documents are given to the investigation committee ... and the necessary measures will be taken to protect the Iraqi airspace."
    Also in January, another senior Iraqi legislator reiterated that the US-led coalition is the main cause of ISIL's survival in Iraq.
    "The international coalition is only an excuse for protecting the ISIL and helping the terrorist group with equipment and weapons," Jome Divan, who is member of the al-Sadr bloc in the Iraqi parliament, said.
    He said the coalition's support for the ISIL is now evident to everyone, and continued, "The coalition has not targeted ISIL's main positions in Iraq."
    In late December, Iraqi Parliamentary Security and Defense Commission MP disclosed that a US plane supplied the ISIL terrorist organization with arms and ammunition in Salahuddin province.
    MP Majid al-Gharawi stated that the available information pointed out that US planes are supplying ISIL organization, not only in Salahuddin province, but also other provinces, Iraq TradeLink reported.
    He added that the US and the international coalition are "not serious in fighting against the ISIL organization, because they have the technological power to determine the presence of ISIL gunmen and destroy them in one month".
    Gharawi added that "the US is trying to expand the time of the war against the ISIL to get guarantees from the Iraqi government to have its bases in Mosul and Anbar provinces."
    Salahuddin security commission also disclosed that "unknown planes threw arms and ammunition to the ISIL gunmen Southeast of Tikrit city".
    Also in Late December, a senior Iraqi lawmaker raised doubts about the seriousness of the anti-ISIL coalition led by the US, and said that the terrorist group still received aids dropped by unidentified aircraft.
    "The international coalition is not serious about air strikes on ISIL terrorists and is even seeking to take out the popular (voluntary) forces from the battlefield against the Takfiris so that the problem with ISIL remains unsolved in the near future," Nahlah al-Hababi told FNA.
    "The ISIL terrorists are still receiving aids from unidentified fighter jets in Iraq and Syria," she added.
    Hababi said that the coalition's precise airstrikes are launched only in those areas where the Kurdish Pishmarga forces are present, while military strikes in other regions are not so much precise.
    In late December, the US-led coalition dropped aids to the Takfiri militants in an area North of Baghdad.
    Field sources in Iraq told al-Manar that the international coalition airplanes dropped aids to the terrorist militants in Balad, an area which lies in Salahuddin province North of Baghdad.
    In October, a high-ranking Iranian commander also slammed the US for providing aid supplies to ISIL, adding that the US claims that the weapons were mistakenly airdropped to ISIL were untrue.
    “The US and the so-called anti-ISIL coalition claim that they have launched a campaign against this terrorist and criminal group - while supplying them with weapons, food and medicine in Jalawla region (a town in Diyala Governorate, Iraq). This explicitly displays the falsity of the coalition's and the US' claims,” Deputy Chief of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Brigadier General Massoud Jazayeri said.
    The US claimed that it had airdropped weapons and medical aid to Kurdish fighters confronting the ISIL in Kobani, near the Turkish border in Northern Syria.
    The US Defense Department said that it had airdropped 28 bundles of weapons and supplies, but one of them did not make it into the hands of the Kurdish fighters.
    Video footage later showed that some of the weapons that the US airdropped were taken by ISIL militants.
    The Iranian commander insisted that the US had the necessary intelligence about ISIL's deployment in the region and that their claims to have mistakenly airdropped weapons to them are as unlikely as they are untrue.

    Related News
    Iraq's Popular Forces Release Photo of Downed US Chopper Carrying Arms for ISIL

    Official: US Planes Continue Dropping Weapons Supplies for for ISIL in Iraq

    Iraqi Forces Seize US-Made Weapons from ISIL in Anbar Province
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #2630
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Now, if the point being made is to go back to the original source, or as close as possible, I agree with you - so here is one of the reports cannibalised by VT.

    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931204001534 Of course, you may not like Fars News, or share its agenda, but do you suggest this story is invented ? And why would they invent this particular story ?
    Why would they invent this? Because the Iranian line is that the US is in bed with ISIS. More so than the Russian line. In fact, I'd believe it more if the source was actually Russian, Russian relations with America are distinctly better than Iranian with Trump as Prez.

    If there is any truth to this, Afghan media would be the only worthwhile source for verification.

    -AMH-

  6. #2631
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Marxist Historian View Post
    Why would they invent this? Because the Iranian line is that the US is in bed with ISIS. More so than the Russian line. In fact, I'd believe it more if the source was actually Russian, Russian relations with America are distinctly better than Iranian with Trump as Prez.

    If there is any truth to this, Afghan media would be the only worthwhile source for verification.

    -AMH-
    Tautological reply on your part - Why is the Iranian line that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why is the line of some Iraqis MPS that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why is it now, openly, the Russian line that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why did Erdogan say that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why does a high proportion of the population of the M.E. think the US is in bed with ISIS ?

    Is it something in the water ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #2632
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Tautological reply on your part - Why is the Iranian line that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why is the line of some Iraqis MPS that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why is it now, openly, the Russian line that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why did Erdogan say that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why does a high proportion of the population of the M.E. think the US is in bed with ISIS ?

    Is it something in the water ?
    You keep making this assertion about what "a high proportion of people in the Middle East" believe about the US and ISIS but have never managed to produce any poll of the people in the Middle East that actually demonstrates this. I wish you would do so before you make this claim again .. for the thousandth time.

    And in any case .... if what people believed was proof of something then Allah must exist.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  8. #2633
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Tautological reply on your part - Why is the Iranian line that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why is the line of some Iraqis MPS that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why is it now, openly, the Russian line that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why did Erdogan say that the US is in bed with ISIS ? Why does a high proportion of the population of the M.E. think the US is in bed with ISIS ?

    Is it something in the water ?
    Because for Iran, Iranian acolytes in Iraq, Russia, and lately even Erdogan (who really has been in bed with ISIS from time to time) it is highly politically convenient to maintain that the US is in bed with ISIS. And quite a few other political actors too. And with that being convenient for so many Middle East political actors, naturally that has a huge effect on Middle East public opinion.

    Plus of course for folk in the Middle East to assume that all their troubles come from America is usually right.

    -AMH-

  9. #2634
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    You keep making this assertion about what "a high proportion of people in the Middle East" believe about the US and ISIS but have never managed to produce any poll of the people in the Middle East that actually demonstrates this. I wish you would do so before you make this claim again .. for the thousandth time.

    And in any case .... if what people believed was proof of something then Allah must exist.
    Of course I produced the poll results on more than one occasion that showed majority belief in the M.E. that the US was backing ISIS. And life is too short to go hunting threads for you for the second time today.

    I was struck by a post you once made saying that "everyone knew" in a particular area who the local CIA men were. In a general way, I think that you are right - bad eggs smell and float when the good ones don't smell and sink. Not saying that individual ISIS members are all card-carrying assets, but as an organisation it is coherently shaped. There are all kinds of little behavioural and visual signs that are 'wrong' about fakes. It was the visual aspects that made ISIS jump out for me as wrong, that being a field in which I have some training. For people who live in the Middle East, who are Muslim, and who have seen a lot more of ISIS than we have, there is a miriad of cultural clues to observe. And of course, Erdogan and the other states mentioned have their own intelligence services.
    It is a fact that western backing for ISIS is a general belief in the Middle East and North Africa.

    Frankly if I have to choose who I think is more likely to have a correct grasp, it is the people who live in the region, who have knowledge of Islam and local politics, and can see a cuckoo in the nest when they encounter one. Rather than go with the flow of western commercial media and think tanks, many of who have a distinct counter factual agenda.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 11-06-2017 at 11:30 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  10. #2635
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Haha ... it seems like the lunatic right in the US is recycling the same old stories in different garb.

    Have a look at the website of one Henry Makow ... esteemed author of "Illuminati3: Satanic Possession: There is only one Conspiracy".

    Back in 2009 he was running with the "mystery helicopters" story .... except then it was the Taliban being ferried around in them.

    https://www.henrymakow.com/taliban_s...g_for_the.html
    Why are you bothering to post a link to Makow's blog at all ?
    Last edited by C. Flower; 11-06-2017 at 11:26 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  11. #2636
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Pentagon is sending 4,000 troops to Afghanistan "to fight ISIS".

    I kid you not.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...deployment-yet
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  12. #2637
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Pentagon is sending 4,000 troops to Afghanistan "to fight ISIS".

    I kid you not.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...deployment-yet
    Not quite a joke. Right now the Taliban and ISIS are fighting it out for control of Tora Bora, Bin Laden's old hangout, of considerable symbolic importance, and military as well. Given that the current regime in Afghanistan is pretty well doomed at this point, ISIS may well be the only really dangerous competitor the Taliban has in the way of a Taliban seizure of power when the regime finally collapses totally. And Afghanistan is the only really plausible place for ISIS remnants to flee after the "Caliphate" collapses, which seems on the agenda.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-tal...t-afghanistan/

    What this and all the other stories this week in the mainstream press leave out is the most important thing about Tora Bora, namely that it was the largest, most expensive and most sophisticated base the CIA ever built, the heart of the CIA-overseen Mujahedeen insurgency vs. the Soviet-backed revolutionary regime in Afghanistan in the 1980s. For which base Bin Laden was the construction contractor more or less.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/ma...bora.html?_r=0

    "The base" being the dictionary definition of "al-Q'aeda."

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/al-qaeda

    -AMH-
    Last edited by A Marxist Historian; 16-06-2017 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #2638
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Thanks for the reminder. There is a lobby in the Pentagon that wants to send in 40,000 troops. How do you think that will pan out ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #2639
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Thanks for the reminder. There is a lobby in the Pentagon that wants to send in 40,000 troops. How do you think that will pan out ?
    Poorly! I suppose Trump might be arrogant and stupid enough to do that.

    I vividly recall watching Russian television when I was visiting Moscow in the aftermath of 9/11. It was like a ripple of shock went through the talking heads when discussing the US desire to invade Afghanistan. The Russians found it hard to believe Bush Jr. could be so fooolish.

    -AMH-

  15. #2640
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    Default Re: ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab etc. etc. - Where did they come from, where are they going ?

    ISIS being thrashed in Mosul. 100,000 civilians still in the Old City: we can have no idea how many civilian deaths.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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