Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 36 of 36

Thread: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Omnipresent
    Posts
    2,136

    Default Re: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    "It is voting that produces scum governments. Not the lack of it. "

    Practicable alternatives please? Or do we just sit around and do nothing?
    Be responsible for yourself. Represent yourself.

    Do you need to be told when to go to bed?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,910

    Default Re: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014

    Great. I'll take up Zen, live one day at a time, look for the hero inside myself, etc.

    That way, I'll become immune to scum governments. Nothing will need to change.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Omnipresent
    Posts
    2,136

    Default Re: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    Great. I'll take up Zen, live one day at a time, look for the hero inside myself, etc.

    That way, I'll become immune to scum governments. Nothing will need to change.
    If you can find said hero, you might succeed.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Cork
    Posts
    922

    Default Re: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I'm not discussing this in terms of personal principles, more in terms of class struggle, which is what underlies elections.
    In a general sense the class struggle underlies every aspect of political life and therefore that includes elections. But in terms of militant class struggle this may or may not apply to any specific election. In the current situation the level of class struggle is very low and that is reflected in the electoral platforms being put forward by the left candidates. They represent that low level of class struggle and in my opinion are an adaptation to it which reinforces it rather than a challenge to it which points a way forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    In terms of vote, it is always, in class struggle terms, most useful to vote down the right and - where lefts are standing - vote for them and put pressure on them to deliver. If they don't then their weaknesses will have been exposed and it will be a learning process for the people who voted for them.
    I disagree with your use of "always" here. It depends on what kind of political illusions the left candidates are spreading, and engaging with, in the wider working class - particularly its more class conscious elements. What the content of those illusions are will affect the lessons that might be learnt at a later stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    In Greece - would you call for a vote there ? Not voting would leave the door open for the far right (even further than it is already). A strong left vote builds the confidence and organisational capacity of the working class. Elections are a period of political reflection and at times intense discussion for the whole population. Standing aside from that is a huge opportunity missed for spreading your ideas and for confronting those you disagree with. It is an opportunity to put forward your programme for examination by voters. If you think that entry into the Dail or to local authorities is a waste of time, then it is surely still right to get stuck in to that debate by standing for election, whether as a member of a party or a left independent, while making it clear your would not take your seat. Far too few people have any left candidates to vote for.
    Taking a position of no vote to any candidate is not "standing aside" from the election process. It is a particular type of intervention into that process of political reflection and discussion. I am not opposed to standing candidates per se but am not currently in a position to do so myself. So I am left with assessing the candidates that are standing and trying to use the tactic of not calling for a vote to any of them to make my political points.

    I disagree that it is necessarily the case that "A strong left vote builds the confidence and organisational capacity of the working class". In fact it can sometimes have the opposite effect by discouraging militant class struggle in favour of passive trust in parliamentary policy changes. It is dependent on the general level of class struggle at the time of the election and the content of the political platforms being put forward by the left candidates.

    I am not sure about Greece as I am not fully aware of all the details on the ground that would go towards making that kind of tactical decision. But given that caveat I think a critical vote for ANTARSYA might be the right call.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I think good for people of the left to be in local government. Look at Seamus Costello, who seemed to know how to work in that position to cut across individual clientelism and to prove himself in practice as a representative, creating a stronger platform for his political standpoint.
    I am not in a position to comment on the details of Seamus Costello's use of his position as an elected representative to further his political views but in general I accept that this is of course quite possible. But given that I consider all the left candidates standing in the current election to be reformist socialists it is unclear to me why them getting elected and then furthering their reformist socialist views is of any necessary advantage to strengthening the politics of revolutionary Marxism.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,982

    Default Re: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014

    Is anyone keeping a track of abstention rates ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,982

    Default Re: "A Communist's View of the Elections" Irish Local Elections 2014


    • Summary via RTE: (any updates would be appreciated)


      A total of 237 seats have been filled by Independents and others out of the 943 filled so far.

      Here's the breakdown:
      Independents 193
      People before Profit 14
      Anti Austerity Alliance 14
      Green Party 12
      Workers' Party 1
      Workers and Unemployed Action Group 1
      United Left 1
      South Kerry Independence Alliance 1
      The remaining six seats in Ballybay-Clones for Monaghan County Council will be filled at a later date.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us