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Thread: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

  1. #16
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Noonan is asked on the Six One when Shatter became aware of this phone bugging. Replies that the AG brought it to Kenny's attention on Sunday and he presumes that Kenny brought it to Shatter's attention.
    When asked if Shatter was informed back in November when the bugging was discontinued he says he has no information on when Shatter found out about it.
    Looks bad when Noonan is being sent out to deal with this.
    On Sunday.

    That in itself surely sugggests full crisis mode ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #17
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations


  3. #18
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    The Ian Bailey case is due back in court on Friday to return to the question of those phone records.
    Is that what triggered the panic?
    The High Court has been told new material has come to light in proceedings taken by Ian Bailey against the Garda Commissioner for wrongful arrest and personal injuries.
    The court was told today that there has been a delay in handing over some documents.Senior Counsel Paul O'Higgins said that the State was now in a position to allow around 16,000 documents to be inspected by lawyers for Mr Bailey.
    However, he said there was a difficulty with some data which was in electronic form.
    He said certain fresh and unexpected material had come up in relation to matters such as phone traffic.
    However, he said this material was in an old, obsolete and fragile electronic format and was proving difficult to "unscramble".
    He said gardaí had called in technical experts from within the force and from abroad to allow the material to be produced to Mr Bailey's side.
    He said he had been told this would take three to four months.
    Lawyers for Mr Bailey said they were concerned that they would be told in three or four months that there would be a further delay in producing the material. Barrister Ronan Munroe said they had received documents which raised significant concerns in the context of Mr Bailey's appeal against his extradition and were anxious to get any further material as soon as possible.
    Mr Justice John Hedigan gave the state until 25 March to produce the additional material.
    The matter will be mentioned before the court again on 28 March.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1125/488...gh-court-case/

  4. #19
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    I seem to be out of kilter with everyone else on this. Why not record all telephone conversations to the Garda Stations? If you phone any company these days they say all conversations may be recorded for training purposes. If the journalists keep dragging down the Gardai they will be unable to function at all. It's mad stuff. The whole thing seems to be political driven with the daft journalists running after false scents. In the meantime the country is bankrupt, people are afraid to live alone in rural areas, the few young people who are left in the country are afraid to go into town in case that are beaten up, and thousands of people are waiting for the bailiff to knock on the door and the politicians are lining their own and their supporters pockets. Why can we never talk about something that matters?

  5. #20
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by The Moth View Post
    I seem to be out of kilter with everyone else on this. Why not record all telephone conversations to the Garda Stations? If you phone any company these days they say all conversations may be recorded for training purposes. If the journalists keep dragging down the Gardai they will be unable to function at all. It's mad stuff. The whole thing seems to be political driven with the daft journalists running after false scents. In the meantime the country is bankrupt, people are afraid to live alone in rural areas, the few young people who are left in the country are afraid to go into town in case that are beaten up, and thousands of people are waiting for the bailiff to knock on the door and the politicians are lining their own and their supporters pockets. Why can we never talk about something that matters?
    There is a right for accused people for private discussion with their lawyer. Whether or not one agrees with that - for the State to cut across that systematically is a crisis for the law - but one that has existed since 1980.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #21
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Ok so it's when someone phones their lawyer from a police station and is taped. Would they not normally be with them in the station when being interviewed? An accused person would usually just make a phone call to ask a solicitor to come in?

  7. #22
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by The Moth View Post
    Ok so it's when someone phones their lawyer from a police station and is taped. Would they not normally be with them in the station when being interviewed? An accused person would usually just make a phone call to ask a solicitor to come in?
    I assume there is also question of bugging of interview rooms. There would be no sense in bugging only the phones.

    Phone calls - ? "Well Seamus, what have you done this time ?"
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  8. #23
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    http://www.thejournal.ie/callinan-wr...81273-Mar2014/

    THE FORMER GARDA Commissioner Martin Callinan wrote to the Department of Justice about recordings of calls at garda stations more than two weeks ago, RTÉ has reported.
    Callinan is reported to have sent a letter to the Secretary General of the department asking that the Minister of Justice be made aware of the details of the recordings.
    The letter is dated 1o March 2014 and was couriered over to the department.
    Tonight, a spokesperson for the Minister Alan Shatter told TheJournal.ie he only received this letter this morning, but they were unable to confirm if this was before or after Callinan resigned just before 10am.
    The letter, entitled “Recordings of Telephone Conversations made and retained in Garda Stations”, which has been seen by RTÉ News, says the recordings took place in the 1990s.
    Informed yesterday
    A government spokesperson said Shatter was told yesterday of the details that have since emerged today about phonecalls in and out of a large number of garda stations being recorded.
    This is after the Taoiseach said he was told on Sunday at 6pm.
    Enda Kenny told the Dáil today that the government has received information of tape recordings in “many garda stations” dating back to the 1980s.
    He said he was made aware of the information at 6pm on Sunday by the Attorney General and spent all day yesterday and last night checking the “validity and veracity of the information”.
    The government said it has learned that system has been in place “for many years” up until November of last year at “a large number of Garda stations “where incoming and outgoing calls were taped and recorded.
    Letter
    Speaking on tonight’s 9 o’clock News, RTÉ Crime Correspondent Paul Reynolds, who has seen the letter, said it was three pages long and had been couriered over to the Department of Justice on 10 March.
    Reynolds said that the former Commissioner’s letter states that the Attorney General was informed of the issue in November of last year.
    Shatter’s spokesperson maintained this evening that the Minister was first given the letter this morning.
    According to RTÉ, the recording systems were first set up in the 1980s to record not just 999 calls but also bomb threats and other messages to the gardaí. The letter also reportedly says that the system was updated in the 1990s with dictaphones and then again updated in 2008. Over 2,500 tapes are said to be in existence.
    A Garda spokesperson told TheJournal.ie tonight that: “In accordance Garda Siochána Act 2005, the Interim Garda Commissioner will provide a report on the matter to the minister”.
    The spokesperson said Noirín O’Sullivan was “taking a personal interest in the matter to ensure it is fully addressed”.
    Report
    Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams tonight said that it is not credible that the Minister for Justice was unaware of last June’s Ombudsman’s report which details the illegal Garda practice of recording incoming and outgoing calls from Garda stations.
    The Garda Ombudsman (GSOC) report from last year criticised the recordings of calls in 2010. Sources close to Shatter say he was not aware of this report and that GSOC was not obligated to notify the minister of its existence.
    Adams tonight called on the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice to come into the Dáil and give a full account of what the government knew and when.
    Adams said:
    The Garda Ombudsman report published last June clearly identifies the Garda practice of recording outgoing and incoming calls.At that time the Ombudsman said that the ‘Garda Commissioner may wish to re-evaluate his practise regarding the recording of such calls.’
    The Ombudsman’s report would have been sent to the Garda Commissioner and to the Department of Justice.
    It is not credible that the Minister for Justice was unaware of this or that he was not told of Ombudsman’s concern.
    The Minister intends to deal with the questions arising out of today’s developments during a statement in the Dáil tomorrow morning.
    The house is due to spend most of the day debating the report of the Garda Inspectorate into the penalty points controversy but matters which have emerged today are likely to dominate.
    Additional reporting from Daragh Brophy and Hugh O’Connell.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #24
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Round up from Gav Reilly

    RTE reports a letter from Callinan to Dept of Justice, March 10, informing it of extent of illegal Garda phone recordings

    Per RTE, the letter reveals true scale, and requests that the Minister for Justice be informed

    This evening a spokeswoman says letter is correct, but remains insistent that Shatter only first saw it this morning

    Spokeswoman also says Shatter only found out about the issue for the first time yesterday evening, just after 6pm

    Separately, spokeswoman says this GSOC document entitled 'report' (http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/docs/pu...rd_Holness.pdf …) is not the report, but a public summary of it

    This is despite the document being linked to on GSOC's website as 'the report': http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/mediaroom/20130616PR.htm

    Spokeswoman also says that GSOC was not statutorily obliged to inform Minister Shatter of its progress/conclusions of this investigation

    which appears in direct contradiction with S103(b)(iii) of Garda Siochana Act, which explicitly says: he does. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/...03.html#sec103

    Department insisting that the GSOC document (a 'press release') did not mean Shatter was informed of 2010 illegal taping in Waterford

    (10) ...even though, presumably, a GSOC press release disclosing illegal taping would surely be grounds for action anyway. Surely?

  10. #25
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Alan Shatter speaks in Dail on both the Garda taping scandal and the Garda Inspectorate report into penalty points tomorrow

    Thursday's events brought forward to allow TDs to attend Nicky McFadden's funeral

  11. #26
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    It's starting to look to me like the GSOC screwed Callinan and Shatter. They used the ruling from the judge to make a recommendation to Callinan to stem a systemic problem. They hadn't been authorised, by Shatter, under the Garda Síochána Act, to investigate a systemic issue. Nonetheless, they put it in the report anyhow, seeing that a judge was concerned about it.

    The GSOC would have been well aware of the implications. Their act of putting it into a report was either a cry for help or as I've suggested, a bit of a foul

    But. But, what happened with regard to the DPP who prosecuted in Waterford, who, as Cass pointed out, tried to use this dubious material as evidence in the prosecution?

    What did that representative of the DPP do in light of the judge's ruling on the inadmissibility of the dubious recordings?

    There are many strands to examine here, with regard to how information should have flowed.

    As I've said before, the criminal justice system is based on a very robust and sound set of ideas. It'd be virtually impossible for garda malpractice to result in injustice if either the DPP or the judiciary were free of corruption. It takes corruption from all three bodies for injustice to thrive. And thrive it does.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Commissioner was told last night of government 'unease' over taping according to a senior minister.


    Explains his resignation but also underlines that government were aware of this and are quite clearly taking big spin gamble ahead of penalty points report due this week

  13. #28
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    Commissioner was told last night of government 'unease' over taping according to a senior minister.


    Explains his resignation but also underlines that government were aware of this and are quite clearly taking big spin gamble ahead of penalty points report due this week
    Apparently a 'very senior civil servant' was sent to talk to him according to #vinb earlier.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    How come GSoc did not investigate the taping of Garda Stations. What do they do? They have 82 employees and very nice offices. They could open it as a real Garda Station which are now in short supply.

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    Default Re: New inquiry to be set up into alleged bugging of conversations in Garda Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Apparently a 'very senior civil servant' was sent to talk to him according to #vinb earlier.
    see we now have a bigger issue, one the govt are already seen to be taking action on

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