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Thread: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employs

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    Default Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employs

    What a woman This really is a strange era in which a small number of courageous and strong individuals are succeeding where organisations and parties are failing to even try.

    Louise O'Keefe after 15 years of great strain and personal financial risk has established that the State is responsible for the children in its care in educational institutions.

    http://www.pila.ie/bulletin/march-20...-human-rights/

    It is not clear immediately what the implications of this finding of the European Court of Justice are for other areas of life in which the State attempts to deny responsibility, but
    it is a vindication of children's rights to protection by the State.

    Great to see this smile -

    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Primetime discussing this has got Diarmuid Ferriter, historian, who is completely missing the point, which is that the Court found that there was an "inherent obligation" on the State to protect children, particularly in primary education.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Cowardly, corrupt politicians of all parties shown to be cowardly and corrupt for decades

    Well done Louise
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    The most important outcrop of this case has nothing to do with politicians, or schools, or children being molested in schools, or boards of management, or compensation for victims ....... it has to do with the failure of the Irish Supreme Court. This is a very very black day for the entire Irish judical system.

    It is quite clear now that there's nothing Supreme about the Irish Supreme Court. Lord Denning's "appaling vista" ( the prospect of massive compensation claims) induced the Irish Supreme Court to deliver a totally perverse verdict. When it comes to the "citizen against the state" the verdict will always be written in advance by expediency. You might as well bring your case to the 2Euro Shop.

    Taking into account that Shatter has now decided to set-up two Supreme Courts we can expect this on the double in the future.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    The most important outcrop of this case has nothing to do with politicians, or schools, or children being molested in schools, or boards of management, or compensation for victims ..
    ..or the responsibilities of the State ? I think Louise O'Keefe would very much disagree with you.

    .... it has to do with the failure of the Irish Supreme Court. This is a very very black day for the entire Irish judical system.

    It is quite clear now that there's nothing Supreme about the Irish Supreme Court. Lord Denning's "appaling vista" ( the prospect of massive compensation claims) induced the Irish Supreme Court to deliver a totally perverse verdict. When it comes to the "citizen against the state" the verdict will always be written in advance by expediency. You might as well bring your case to the 2Euro Shop.

    Taking into account that Shatter has now decided to set-up two Supreme Courts we can expect this on the double in the future.
    [/QUOTE]

    The Supreme Court's decision on this - and the decision on awarding the State's costs against Louise O'Keefe - was worse than pathetic. It is not the first time that the Courts have protected the State from claims and costs.
    On occasion, members of the judiciary do right, but the Courts on the whole protect the interests of the powerful against the weak.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post


    The Supreme Court's decision on this - and the decision on awarding the State's costs against Louise O'Keefe - was worse than pathetic.
    The Supreme Court did NOT award the state's cost against Louise O'Keefe.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    The Supreme Court did NOT award the state's cost against Louise O'Keefe.
    No, it was the State Claims Agency that pursued the State's entitlement to costs arising from the Court's decision, with Government Departments making weasel arguments that they indvidually were not pursuing her

    For information, the Statement of Facts by Louise O'Keefe, to the European Court.

    http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-111189#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-111189%22]}
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Fair play to Vincent Browne .......... he made the case that I put in my previous post here.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    No, it was the State Claims Agency that pursued the State's entitlement to costs arising from the Court's decision, with Government Departments making weasel arguments that they indvidually were not pursuing her

    For information, the Statement of Facts by Louise O'Keefe, to the European Court.
    The Supreme Court did NOT award costs against Louise O'Keefe because they said her case raised matters of major public interest.

    A Cork mother-of-two has had the threat of a massive legal bill lifted after the Supreme Court refused an application by the State for costs against her. Louise O'Keeffe had sued the State for abuse she suffered as a child at the hands of her school teacher. She lost in the High Court and on appeal in the Supreme Court. Ms O'Keeffe was ordered by the High Court to pay the State's costs. She faced a legal bill of up to €500,000.
    You should try to get some of the facts right ......some of the time.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    The Supreme Court did NOT award cost against Louise O'Keefe because they said her case raised matter of major public interest.



    You should try to get some of the facts right ......some of the time.
    You should try reading the post, and you will see that I did not say that the Supreme Court made that decision.

    If you are saying that Louise O'Keefe was not put under threat of costs then perhaps you should listen to her statements on this, rather than misread mine.

    Other claimaints dropped their cases on the basis of what was happening to her.

    She said tonight on the news that she had never received any notice from the State that they would not be pursuing her further for costs.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    You should try reading the post, and you will see that I did not say that the Supreme Court made that decision.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post

    The Supreme Court's decision on this - and the decision on awarding the State's costs against Louise O'Keefe - was worse than pathetic. .
    In the above post you attribute the awarding of the state's costs to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court refused to award costs against Louise O'Keefe ...you were wrong ...... admit it and move on.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    In the above post you attribute the awarding of the state's costs to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court refused to award costs against Louise O'Keefe ...you were wrong ...... admit it and move on.
    Had I meant their decision, I would have written their decision, not the decision. You have still not read the post.

    The Supreme Court's decision on this - and the decision on awarding the State's costs against Louise O'Keefe - was worse than pathetic
    Frankly, I think that Louise O'Keefe's efforts deserve better than this kind of point scoring.

    I don't think too many people fail to see that the issue is primarily the State's responsibility to children, something it has contested tooth and nail in every Court in the land and now in Europe.

    The Supreme Court messes up pretty regularly. That is not news.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 29-01-2014 at 12:03 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Had I meant their decision, I would have written their decision, not the decision. You have still not read the post.



    Frankly, I think that Louise O'Keefe's efforts deserve better than this kind of attempted point scoring.
    I leave for others to decide whether your wiggling gets you anywhere.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    I leave for others to decide whether your wiggling gets you anywhere.
    If you were right on this, it would not make it any better.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Great Victory for Louise O'Keefe at the European Court of Rights - Gov - IS responsible for actions of teachers it employ

    As Chair of a school Board where allegations of harassment were brought to us, I had a few interesting years dealing with such an issue. We acted immediately, and in line with existing policy documents from both the school and the trade union who were defending the person accused of sexual harrassment, We succeeded over a long and painful period of inquiry,interview , legal advice and meetings, to suspend and then fire the person involved. Louise O'Keeffe would have been protected and defended in that procedure had she been a complainant.

    The Minister, who was the employer, and not the school Board, did not join our case when we were taken to the High Court. Because we had acted absolutely within agreed procedures the defendant had to settle, on terms much less favourable than we had imposed in our unanimous Board decision.This occurred in the early 2000s. For any bodies in authority to claim they did not know procedure or protocol or goddammit plain right and wrong at the time is an outrage. Our Board of volunteers had no doubt as to the right course of action.

    It left a very bad feeling for an absolutely voluntary Board who had to carry the can without having the authority to fire and hire absolutely. The DES plays a clever game. All those noble volunteers out there running boards and taking the flak for tough decisions without triaining,or annual ge-together days, they are to be honoured.They seem to have made good decisions without the 'moral leadership' of the church and without the legal support of the DES. Well done the ordinary folks and well done Ms O'Keeffe.

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