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Thread: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    But will normalizing drug use increase it's consumption?
    Difficult to say, there is a plethora of research in this area.
    In case this all goes pear-shaped, I'll bid you adieu

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Cheers Paddy.
    In case this all goes pear-shaped, I'll bid you adieu

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Here's one good reason why the government won't look favourably on the proposal.

    From the bill:
    The Bill is cleverly structured. There are some glaring innovations that a good negotiator might concede in a pinch.

    I liked this bit:
    Cultivation licences.
    15.— The cultivation of cannabis shall only be permissible pursuant to one of the following
    categories of licenses, provided any conditions attached thereto and all legislative
    requirements are fully complied with -
    (a) Licence for the Commercial Cultivation of Cannabis;
    (b) Licence for the Home Cultivation of Cannabis; and
    (c) Licence for the Cannabis Social Club Cultivation of Cannabis
    It's an aspirational document really and I applaud Ming's (populist band-wagon-jumper) tenacity. But the Cabinet will never let this through, they're too conservative.
    Last edited by musashi; 06-11-2013 at 10:45 PM.
    In case this all goes pear-shaped, I'll bid you adieu

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    But will normalizing drug use increase it's consumption?
    Drug use can't get any more normal.
    But the illegality certainly increased my desire for consumption as a youth.
    It was very much a case of whatever the ******* say I can't have, I want now.
    A bit similar to some people's desire for a united ireland.
    Nothing like a good illicit high to get you through the day.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Sam It is legally grown in nearby countries like Britain and France but its illegal here afaik. I just think things like bio fuel and textile production are not convenient to an elite determined to lazily base their false economy on rented mnc investment. Hemp production is an industry with some potential for a number of reasons excluding cannabis. As we have no manufacturing base since joining the eu it suits a lot of vested interests that the irish economy stays weak, narrowly focused and foreign owned.

    I just think it's stupid not to produce hemp as France does this on a broad scale by reducing the chemical used for weed in it. This argument is an aside but not unrelated.

    Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Just posting this as a matter of interest:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9A00KO20131101

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Surprising speech from Deputy Paul Connaughton yesterday

    http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas....13110600063#N3

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Whether buying hash or weed in Ireland, one is always taking a chance when purchasing personal supplies from dubious and unregulated sources on the streets and elsewhere. Even if you think you know and trust your supplier well, there's still no guarantee that the substances you're buying are clean or pure, as the suppliers themselves often don't know what the previous handler has done to taint or boost the content of the substance before they acquired it, whether hash or weed.

    For example, apart from the UK, I don't know of any other European culture which sells so much 'soap bar' as Ireland. Soap bar being the lowest grade of tetrahydrocannabinol content hashish. It's extremely popular in Ireland for some reason, but elsewhere in Europe it's frowned heavily upon. The process of production of soap bar is in itself relatively simple to carry out. But the problem is that once the hashish is produced and shipped, it passes through so many dodgy hands in so many dodgy places before reaching the consumer. Dealers and suppliers alike are frequently guilty of boosting the content and mass by cooking the hash down and adding in anything and everything to hand. These additives can include diesel, shíte - both animal and human, henna for colour, flour, wallpaper paste, mud and dirt, sugarbeets and salts, fertilizer, and jayzus knows what all else.

    It's not uncommon to cook up a corner of one's quarter or half ounce of soap bar and find miniscule pieces of plastic wrapping strewn throughout the hash. This toxic material melts when smoked, and when inhaled is quite poisonous.

    All these carcinogens and poisons have, over years of regular smoking, caused all kinds of lung and breathing infections in regular users. The medical costs to the state are obvious. Bronchitis and asthma, all that constant hacking and coughing, all sorts of lung cancers and general infections, etc. The list goes on.

    Weed often isn't much better. The THC content may be high in the new strains of skunk weed available, but I have in the past purchased similiar weed in the Republic which I found to be laced with miniscule glass shards, likely added to give the impression of a crystalline finish to the buds or flowers. These tiny, barely visible to the eye glass shards tear the throat and lungs to pieces on inhalation, and can ultimately cause even worse damage depending on what other mass-boosting substances have been added by the supplier, or the supplier's supplier, and so on down the line back to it's source.

    It's also not that unusual for large supplies of solid hashish to be buried underground for lengthy periods of time for the purpose of hiding and securing the dope before distribution. If the hash isn't securely air-sealed, all kinds of fungus and other decaying substances can develop in the body of the hash, leading to all kinds of infections and reactions from the unknowing and unaware user on the street when they smoke it.

    When one considers the cost to the state in medical assistance and hospitalisation due to symptoms incurred in buying from unregulated sources by regular smokers, and they number amongst the thousands in Ireland alone, and then consider the tax intake potential in legalizing it through a state supervised outlet system as an alternative, one has to wonder why the state continues to drag it's heels about legalizing cannabis and marijuana.

    Back in the nineties, Hot Press journalist and independent author Olaf Tyrrannsen ran on the legalisation ticket. He took in only a few votes, but his angle was a thoroughly considered one. Make the weed and hash available through pharmacies under strict purchasable amounts at fixed prices with a guarantee on quality and purity attached. One could use ones EU or Irish identity card, driving license, or PPS number, buying a maximum amount of say ten or fifteen grammes per week per person for example, and they'd have the purchase recorded to a centalised system which then automatically disallowed you buying any more than that amount in any given week from any other pharmacy involved in the programme.

    A cleaner, more efficient, and more dependable system than Holland's coffeshops, and one which could bring in not just a lot of tourist dollars, but a lot of savings on our annual medical care costs caused by the purchase and use of filthy variations of this otherwise harmless drug.

    Harmless as in a lot less damaging than alcohol, the preferred dope of the political animal.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowl View Post
    When one considers the cost to the state in medical assistance and hospitalisation due to symptoms incurred in buying from unregulated sources by regular smokers, and they number amongst the thousands in Ireland alone, and then consider the tax intake potential in legalizing it through a state supervised outlet system as an alternative, one has to wonder why the state continues to drag it's heels about legalizing cannabis and marijuana.
    Any studies to support this?

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Seán Ryan View Post
    I'm against legalisation.

    That said, if anyone's got a spliff I'll have a toke.

    If the State legalises cannabis (not a hope), it will give the impression that it's any of the State's business, what I put in my body.

    I can currently roll a cigarette, tear up a plastic bag and put that into it too. I can smoke it. And I'll be breaking no law.

    The law's an ass and our legislators are arseholes.
    I don't understand how someone can say they would smoke cannabis from time to time if it was offered to them, but would be against legalising it which would regulate it and make it safer and less harmful?

    There's no way it will happen here anyway. Could you imagine the Joe Duffy Show if there was ever a Referendum about it.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Any studies to support this?
    Nope.

    Or at least not that I'm aware of.

    But personal experience and common sense alone would appear to me to be sufficient indicators.

    Until a few years ago, hashish was the most commonly available substance smoked in Ireland, more so than weed. Quality weed of any type was extremely rare on the Irish open market unless you were either very well connected or else capable and willing to risk growing it yourself.

    Whereas soap bar - that foulest of dirt - was very common and very affordable. It was available anywhere and everywhere. It still is in some quarters - people offer it to me for free when I'm home.

    Over the years and recent few decades, cigarette, pipe, cigar, and other smokers who presented at hospitals with lung diseases or other related blood and breathing infections would hardly have wanted to discuss their 'other' smoking habits with their doctors - for a variety of fairly obvious and common sense reasons.

    But if as smokers of legal products they were also smoking hash in soap bar form - the most common form of hash throughout many recent years - then simple common sense indicates that aspects of their more chronic problems could and possibly would also have stemmed from using this dangerous form of hash. Lung disease, cancer, emphysema, and so on.

    No doubt a study would be helpful.

    But would it be necessary?

    Just look at the stuff.

    It's mostly dirt.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    I don't understand how someone can say they would smoke cannabis from time to time if it was offered to them, but would be against legalising it which would regulate it and make it safer and less harmful?

    There's no way it will happen here anyway. Could you imagine the Joe Duffy Show if there was ever a Referendum about it.
    I'm against both the criminalisation and the legalisation of most substances. I agree that there are some things that individuals probably shouldn't possess: plutonium, uranium and other radiological, chemical and biological substances. I don't mind legislation for those things, that controls the manufacture and distribution of them. But there's a line at which the ability to legislate for such things becomes both restrictive and ridiculous. I reckon that that particular line is drawn so far beyond where cannabis lies on that particular list that the arguments for both legalising and criminalising are insanely inappropriate.

    I don't necessarily agree that regulating it will make it safer. If profit is the driving force, the criminal underworld will easily cut the throats of competition by adding cheap impurities and by having access to other substances not yet catered for legislatively, in a profit making sense.

    Use of the law is only a symptom of the actual problem. No matter how much one tinkers with the law, the actual problem continues, unremitting and largely unrecognised.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Seán Ryan View Post
    I'm against both the criminalisation and the legalisation of most substances. I agree that there are some things that individuals probably shouldn't possess: plutonium, uranium and other radiological, chemical and biological substances. I don't mind legislation for those things, that controls the manufacture and distribution of them. But there's a line at which the ability to legislate for such things becomes both restrictive and ridiculous. I reckon that that particular line is drawn so far beyond where cannabis lies on that particular list that the arguments for both legalising and criminalising are insanely inappropriate.

    I don't necessarily agree that regulating it will make it safer. If profit is the driving force, the criminal underworld will easily cut the throats of competition by adding cheap impurities and by having access to other substances not yet catered for legislatively, in a profit making sense.

    Use of the law is only a symptom of the actual problem. No matter how much one tinkers with the law, the actual problem continues, unremitting and largely unrecognised.
    In relation to marijuana, the emboldened section is somewhat questionable in that when one considers those locations where it has been made legal, such as Amsterdam for example, smokers happily went about their business and purchased from regulated sources in the coffeeshops, safe in the knowledge they were neither breaking the law nor taking a risk with their health.

    For a considerable period of time throughout the years of marijuana regulation in Amsterdam, dealers of other far more dangerous drugs continued plying their trades by hustling on the street corners of the city, offering cocaine, amphetamine, heroin, LSD, and ecstasy. Cleaning up that particular problem took far harsher efforts by the authorities, but meanwhile the smokers continued to smoke safely and legally and the authorities saw no reason to change the system.

    Nowadays the dealers are gone from the street corners, and the coffeeshops continue to do a brisk and relatively safe business with both tourists and locals alike, present considerations regarding domicile accepted.

    Still, if the consumer has the choice between buying from a licensed outlet or from some heavy dude pushing on the street, then common sense generally prevails.

    Smokers might be considered druggies by straight folk, but smokers don't consider themselves that way at all. Not all perceived druggies are lunatics with a deathwish. Most of us are just regular folk who prefer our own specific tastes when it comes to choosing which substances we use when winding down. We care about our health. In an ideal world we would, reasonably, expect our institutions to take that into consideration, rather than expose us to some fairly dangerous people pushing some fairly dangerous substances.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Let me preface this first off by saying that cannibis is not a drug that should be used by someone with pre existing mental illness as cannabis has been heavily linked to increasing psychosis and paranoia in those who are mentally ill to the point where they are in a vunerable position. The evidence is blatantly clear and its these people whom need to be not allowed to touch cannabis.

    Mings legislation is from skimming it a decent robust piece of legislation rooted in sensibility. Reactionaries amongst users here will point to the obvious effects of it a)triggering mental illness (dealt with above) and b)leading on to harsher drugs which Im going to address now. A study a couple of years back (http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/adb/10/4/222/) showed that people who were opiate addicts were not likely to test for cannabis . Both these drugs operate in a different way to one and other.

    [QUOTE]Patients who were positive for both cocaine and benzodiazepine, but not those positive for cannabis, were more likely also to test positive for opiates.[/QUOTE]

    Legalisation of cannabis within a framework where it is pure cannabis and can be purchased in dime bags as they are termed and sectioning off a section of Dublin with no alcohol as is the case in Amsterdam could create an alternative to the alcohol culture, boost tourism and allow the government to bring in more taxes whilst at the same time undercutting the drug dealers. A promotion of positive mental health be pushed along side it with scare tactics of what cannabis could be cut with (heard of anti freeze being used to soak cannabis, eugh!).
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowl View Post

    Just look at the stuff.

    It's mostly dirt.
    Don't smoke it then. It's not like it's addictive or anything ...

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