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Thread: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

  1. #16

    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant View Post
    So the NCCA commissioned a private study involving 88 JC students (out of over 200,000) from a very small number of select students who participate in Comhairlaí na nÓg through the county enterprise boards. The NCCA did not go into schools and talk to students or teachers - in fact they ignored the students and the teachers (including ingoring what these 88 Comhairlaí na nÓg members proposed when it didn't fit in with Quinn's strategy) because Quinn has an agenda - an agenda for privatisation - and he is only interested in what backs up his plans.
    Comhairle are not linked with the Enterprise Boards, but the County Development Boards. They are also the recognised consultative mechanism for young people. Each Comhairle that attended had consulted with students and schools in their County, mostly through the Student Councils. There was also an online survey which was promoted through Facebook, ISSU were also consulted.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Primetime is holding a discussion on this now.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Rightly saying that teacher attitudes will affect marking.

    Well, yes.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedTrousers View Post
    Comhairle are not linked with the Enterprise Boards, but the County Development Boards.
    You are correct - but there is little difference - they are both involved in promoting the interests of the establishment on a county basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedTrousers View Post
    They are also the recognised consultative mechanism for young people.
    Rubbish - the vast majority of students don't even know they exist

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedTrousers View Post
    Each Comhairle that attended had consulted with students and schools in their County,
    More rubbish - I do not know of one single school that was 'consulted' and I have contacts in a large number of schools. Indeed a union official confirmed to me recently that he did not know of any school where it actually happened either.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedTrousers View Post
    mostly through the Student Councils.
    Few schools have a functioning Student Council these days - it was generally organised through a B-post holder but since the chopping of promotional grades within education this post of responsibility was relegated to the also rans as schools scrambled to try and get year-head and exam responsibilites covered. As a result student councils in most schools have fallen by the wayside.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedTrousers View Post
    There was also an online survey which was promoted through Facebook,
    Who set up the survey?
    What questions were asked?
    How many students filled it out?

    Quote Originally Posted by RaggedTrousers View Post
    ISSU were also consulted.
    With all due respect - ISSU is a damp squib - these days it is a training ground for a handful of students with aspirations for political careers and acts as nothing more than a tool for Quinn and bureaucrats in the department. It has minimal impact outside of a handful of schools in the greater Dublin area and has been actively developed by the establishment to promote their interests among students. The ISSU fawned over the recent proposals for the JC without any developed consideration of the impact of these proposals and its 'consultation' amounted to little more than thanking Quinn for letting them have a role in deciding what the new JC would be called.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant View Post
    You are correct - but there is little difference - they are both involved in promoting the interests of the establishment on a county basis.


    Rubbish - the vast majority of students don't even know they exist


    More rubbish - I do not know of one single school that was 'consulted' and I have contacts in a large number of schools. Indeed a union official confirmed to me recently that he did not know of any school where it actually happened either.


    Few schools have a functioning Student Council these days - it was generally organised through a B-post holder but since the chopping of promotional grades within education this post of responsibility was relegated to the also rans as schools scrambled to try and get year-head and exam responsibilites covered. As a result student councils in most schools have fallen by the wayside.


    Who set up the survey?
    What questions were asked?
    How many students filled it out?


    With all due respect - ISSU is a damp squib - these days it is a training ground for a handful of students with aspirations for political careers and acts as nothing more than a tool for Quinn and bureaucrats in the department. It has minimal impact outside of a handful of schools in the greater Dublin area and has been actively developed by the establishment to promote their interests among students. The ISSU fawned over the recent proposals for the JC without any developed consideration of the impact of these proposals and its 'consultation' amounted to little more than thanking Quinn for letting them have a role in deciding what the new JC would be called.
    Have looked at the ISSU over the last while and it has the appearance of being a partnership type quangoised body. http://issu.ie/
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant View Post
    Excluding externals the payment for correcting the PLC work of students is more than double what is paid for correcting the JC papers.


    So the NCCA commissioned a private study involving 88 JC students (out of over 200,000) from a very small number of select students who participate in Comhairlaí na nÓg through the county enterprise boards. The NCCA did not go into schools and talk to students or teachers - in fact they ignored the students and the teachers (including ingoring what these 88 Comhairlaí na nÓg members proposed when it didn't fit in with Quinn's strategy) because Quinn has an agenda - an agenda for privatisation - and he is only interested in what backs up his plans.
    The question also has to be asked if "consultation" with kids is really worth all that much...

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post


    Degrees are not required to have a trade but to enter a profession and, in Ireland, third level education is rationed which specifically limits admissions to the professions.
    Under Fine Gael undoubtedly we will see reduced access to third level education of any real quality and tighter control of access to the professions by the children of the crony class.


    The youth in Germany are not being dumbed-down but get good training while still at secondary school and walk into well-paying jobs. The Germans do it right.
    They do. Losing two World Wars was less damaging to German industry and education than British colonialism was in Ireland.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Ruairi Quinn yesterday at the Teachers' Conferences stirred up fury by blanking out teachers concerns about the new curriculum proposals - he chose to off the cuff announce that Higher Level maths will be required to train as a teacher for all age groups and subjects, to drive back the "feminisation" of teachers.

    The two unions are meeting to discuss amalgamation, and a push for wage increases is certain.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    At one time there was a hidden affirmative action programme for men entering primary teaching, It took the form of a men-only college, St. Pat's. The Leaving Cert achievement required to secure a place was lower than in the women-only colleges where competition was higher. Integrating the colleges removed this advantage for men.

    Meanwhile at second level there were a number of areas with no women teachers at all in Technology, Technical Graphics, Engineering and Construction Studies. The four-year degree programmes only saw the first women students in the late 80's and they are still male-dominated. No fuss there about feminisation. School initiatives to attract girls into technical areas were motivated by a wish to increase numbers and not to bring gender balance.

    If the Minister wished to balance the profession, and ideally schools should be gender balanced, I don't know that Honours Maths is the way to go.
    If the Minister wishes to raise Maths achievement, then gender is not an issue. Very befuddled thinking.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Honours math isn't an issue there as there is something behind 'mileage streak's ' claimer minister's agenda.

    It's a diversion as honours maths isn't dominant in student's minds.

    It's pre-dominantly long term unemployment or new jobs with low starting wages (allied with very high tax take with nothing for savings)...thus dumbing down economy or emigration. These are three choices available to any prospective young job seeker.

    Btw €2BN CUTS next budget strongly signalled a longer term of austerity model.

    Draghi said they have ditched 'EU social model' replaced with austerity model.
    Last edited by disability student; 23-04-2014 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    "It took the form of a men-only college, St. Pat's." When was this? I have a lady-friend whom I know for a fact was there in the 1970s.

    In any case, Quinn's point is silly. A lot of good people, who happen not to be brilliant at maths, would be kept out of the profession by such unnecessary rules and conditions.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    "It took the form of a men-only college, St. Pat's." When was this? I have a lady-friend whom I know for a fact was there in the 1970s.

    In any case, Quinn's point is silly. A lot of good people, who happen not to be brilliant at maths, would be kept out of the profession by such unnecessary rules and conditions.
    I have heard that from a relative that a friend of hers went to St Pat's in late 70's.

    Quinn failed to reform the whole education sector as he started the whole myriad of CUTS, which in turn had affected the education and the quality of education itself.

    Quinn was listening to the likes of IBEC and the MNC (multi-national companies) people re honours maths. These techers unions knows what's affecting the education on the ground and the issue of yellow package of salary cuts plus austerity cuts in that sector in form of less resources as well.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Your lady friend is correct.

    https://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/about/history.shtml


    " Originally an all-male College, female students were admitted for the first time in 1971; they now constitute a large majority of the student population."

    I did research on the issue in the '80s and interviewed the Principals in all those colleges. One of the comments was that 'A man with just one nostril above water academically ( on graduating) would get a job before a woman with top honours". They were also more likely to get Principalships.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by disability student View Post
    Honours math isn't an issue there as there is something behind 'mileage streak's ' claimer minister's agenda.

    It's a diversion as honours maths isn't dominant in student's minds.

    It's pre-dominantly long term unemployment or new jobs with low starting wages (allied with very high tax take with nothing for savings)...thus dumbing down economy or emigration. These are three choices available to any prospective young job seeker.

    Btw €2BN CUTS next budget strongly signalled a longer term of austerity model.

    Draghi said they have ditched 'EU social model' replaced with austerity model.
    I'm not sure I follow you here DS. I agree with you about the issues for prospective job seekers.

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    Default Re: Second Level Education Changes in Ireland

    Women running households since the world started having households shouldn't take lectures about sums from ******** ministers.

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