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Thread: Lucinda chasing the top job in FG? - adventures of the rebel alliance

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    Default Lucinda chasing the top job in FG? - adventures of the rebel alliance

    All the noise coming from her over the new abortion bill is marking her stand out from the party isnt it? At the forefront of those voting for the bill is Lucinda and any media opportunity she further consolidates her position. Aside from her random mutterings her latest drivel on the topic is her musing that the abortion debate is not a religious issue but that of human rights.

    http://www.lucindacreighton.ie/2013/...-second-stage/

    Look at the choice of language

    I have never regarded myself as a pro-life campaigner. I was not motivated to become active in politics because of the abortion issue. In fact I have spoken previously about the fact that I held a very different view on this matter when I was a student.
    There is an emerging consensus in Ireland which suggests that having a sense of morality has something to do with the Catholic Church. It is automatically assumed that if you consult your conscience, you are essentially consulting with Rome. This is deeply worrying. It is a lazy way of attempting to undermine the worth of an argument, without actually dealing with the substance. This is not just a Catholic issue, any more than it is a Protestant or Muslim issue. This is not a religious issue. It is a human rights issue.
    That very stance appeases all of the members of the party. The non religious or agnostics see the religious element being omitted and the anti choicers see her taking a principaled stance. Now that Enda may take over from Barroso and FG will be as popular as a dose of the clap is she angling for the leadership of FG?

    There was a reported attempted to apparently give Enda the heave years ago, of which Creighton denies she was a part...

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/...-26690568.html

    Lucinda still smarts at accusations -- from her own side, mainly -- that she was one of the prime movers in the alleged plot. "I know for a fact that fingers were pointed deliberately at people like Brian Hayes, and me, John Deasy and Damien English, that we were hatching a plot since February. That was a lie," she says.
    Walking the tightrope,using the right language...
    Last edited by fluffybiscuits; 02-07-2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: turn of phrase..penguins...
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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    I have to say, if she's tilting for the Fine Gael leadership, getting herself expelled from the Party is a pretty strange way of going about it.

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceannaire View Post
    I have to say, if she's tilting for the Fine Gael leadership, getting herself expelled from the Party is a pretty strange way of going about it.
    She is a popular figure in FG circles is she not?
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    She is a popular figure in FG circles is she not?
    Sarcasm?

    Regards...jmcc

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcc View Post
    Sarcasm?

    Regards...jmcc
    Nope
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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    I don't know or care about Lucinda Creighton's motives or career prospects, but why is the argument that abortion is not a religious issue but rather a human rights one dismissed as 'drivel'?

    Do I have to post examples of non-religious people making the exact same argument before such a self-serving and propagandist distortion is finally debunked?
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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    I don't know or care about Lucinda Creighton's motives or career prospects, but why is the argument that abortion is not a religious issue but rather a human rights one dismissed as 'drivel'?

    Do I have to post examples of non-religious people making the exact same argument before such a self-serving and propagandist distortion is finally debunked?
    Thought we dealt with that and Christopher Hitchens was just against surgical abortion? Can we address the issue of Lucinda maybe chasing the top job and look at the abortion issue on the other thread mate!..
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Thought we dealt with that and Christopher Hitchens was just against surgical abortion? Can we address the issue of Lucinda maybe chasing the top job and look at the abortion issue on the other thread mate!..
    Christopher Hitchens would have opposed the 'risk of suicide' grounds in this bill, which is what's at issue here. But it's not just him, there are a lot of anti-abortion atheists and agnostics. And if it were purely about religion then I would not oppose its legalisation, as I did with divorce and contraception. But it isn't, it's about killing.

    As I said, I don't care about Creighton, but you decided to start the OP by dismissing the assertion as 'drivel', and so therefore I am on topic by questioning that characterization...
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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    Christopher Hitchens would have opposed the 'risk of suicide' grounds in this bill, which is what's at issue here. But it's not just him, there are a lot of anti-abortion atheists and agnostics. And if it were purely about religion then I would not oppose its legalisation, as I did with divorce and contraception. But it isn't, it's about killing.

    As I said, I don't care about Creighton, but you decided to start the OP by dismissing the assertion as 'drivel', and so therefore I am on topic by questioning that characterization...
    The topic is Lucinda chasing the leadership of FG not her beliefs on abortion which are only indirectly related. As I said no issue what so ever discussing this on another thread....
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    She gave one of the most important speeches ever given in Dail Eireann yesterday. This is true irrespective of whether you are for or against abortion. Her references to "group think" applies to many other aspects of the government's program.

    My guess is ... she in intends to setup "Real Fine Gael." ....... lol !!
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    She gave one of the most important speeches ever given in Dail Eireann yesterday. This is true irrespective of whether you are for or against abortion. Her references to "group think" applies to many other aspects of the government's program.

    My guess is ... she in intends to setup "Real Fine Gael." ....... lol !!
    The awful thing is that might not be a joke! She looked very uncomfortable out here sitting beside Enda. Who was slightly turned away from her.

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengoddess View Post
    The awful thing is that might not be a joke! She looked very uncomfortable out here sitting beside Enda. Who was slightly turned away from her.

    Yeah ...... but you didn't comment on her speech GG.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    She gave one of the most important speeches ever given in Dail Eireann yesterday. This is true irrespective of whether you are for or against abortion. Her references to "group think" applies to many other aspects of the government's program.

    My guess is ... she in intends to setup "Real Fine Gael." ....... lol !!
    Or a new party with Deco and McGuirk
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Quote Originally Posted by riposte View Post
    Yeah ...... but you didn't comment on her speech GG.
    Speech?

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    Default Re: Is Lucinda chasing the top job in FG?

    Lucinda would be like kryptonite to FGs electoral chances, take away the reasonably affable Enda and FG are exposed as Thatcher wannabes with parish pump credentials. Coveney is about the only hope they would have of avoiding a post Enda slump.

    Creighton is right that abortion is not just a religious issue, but wrong to state that it's not a religious issue, they are inextricably linked in that to follow the edicts of religious leaders means one should oppose abortion, whereas being anti-abortion need not necessarily be informed by any religious belief.

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