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Thread: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ? -/Death Penalty for 722 announced

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    @EgyPresidency still tweeting.
    https://twitter.com/EgyPresidency

    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    The US and legally???

    This planet you're from, how for from the sun we talking?
    lol !!
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    ElBaradei was flown in by the US in the middle of the spring 2010 events in Egypt, but could not get any support for his move to take the leadership then.
    The CIA are like the Mounties ....... "they always get their man."
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    The US and legally???

    This planet you're from, how for from the sun we talking?
    Looks like Senator Patrick Leahy, head of the Budget Committee for the State Dept and Foreign Assitance, is going to review aid to Egypt.
    Egypt’s military leaders say they have no intent or desire to govern, and I hope they make good on their promise. In the meantime, our law is clear: U.S. aid is cut off when a democratically elected government is deposed by military coup or decree. As we work on the new budget, my committee also will review future aid to the Egyptian government as we wait for a clearer picture. As the world’s oldest democracy, this is a time to reaffirm our commitment to the principle that transfers of power should be by the ballot, not by force of arms.”
    http://www.leahy.senate.gov/press/_-...r-in-egypt----

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Head of the Muslim Brotherhood's political party and the group's deputy chief have been arrested

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Three hundred MB people arrested - a round up. Rights being trashed.
    Also, State TV (not exactly an anti-establishment body) closed down.

    This has been what one reporter described as "a popular military coup." A majority of the millions who came onto the streets wanted Morsi to go, but they relied on the army to take control. Since 2010, the people have never fully abandoned the street as the place to act politically, but the mass of people have not yet confronted, or been confronted by, the armed forces, who stood back on the edge of Tahrir Square and whose conscripts reportedly refused to fire on the one occasion asked to. The army negotiated behind the scenes with the MB during the Tahrir events of 2010 and took a view not to attempt interference in the elections or their result. A confrontation between the army and tens of millions of people at that time did not have any certain outcome, and it is possible that the army would have split with some officers and many conscripts either refusing to fire or supporting the people. That remains the case. Where millions are prepared to come out, the army does not have it all their own way. If the army is to take full control, it would have to carry out a massacre and drive people off the streets. No guarantee that they would succeed. So in spite of the coup, there remains a balance of power for the time being between "the street" and the army, so long as people are ready to mobilise in millions.

    The halting of US aid is not a positive move. I doubt it will be resumed for the benefit of any government it did not support.

    The economy, which underlies all this, is worsening. The army most certainly has no answers, being a corrupt and parasitic body, closely aligned to the US.

    The left opposition need to put the economy, and its solutions to the economy crisis, at the centre of their strategy.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 04-07-2013 at 08:37 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Three hundred MB people arrested - a round up. Rights being trashed.
    Also, State TV (not exactly an anti-establishment body) closed down.

    This has been what one reporter described as "a popular military coup." A majority of the millions who came onto the streets wanted Morsi to go, but they relied on the army to take control. Since 2010, the people have never fully abandoned the street as the place to act politically, but they have not yet confronted, or been confronted by, the armed forces, who stood back on the edge of Tahrir Square and whose conscripts reportedly refused to fire on the one occasion asked to. The army negotiated behind the scenes with the MB during the Tahrir events of 2010 and took a view not to attempt interference in the elections or their result. A confrontation between the army and tens of millions of people at that time did not have any certain outcome, and it is possible that the army would have split with some officers and many conscripts either refusing to fire or supporting the people. That remains the case. Where millions are prepared to come out, the army does not have it all their own way. If the army is to take full control, it would have to carry out a massacre and drive people off the streets. No guarantee that they would succeed. So in spite of the coup, there remains a balance of power for the time being between "the street" and the army, so long as people are ready to mobilise in millions.

    The halting of US aid is not a positive move. I doubt it will be resumed for the benefit of any government it did not support.

    The economy, which underlies all this, is worsening. The army most certainly has no answers, being a corrupt and parasitic body, closely aligned to the US.

    The left opposition need to put the economy, and its solutions to the economy crisis, at the centre of their strategy.

    I think the US aid was solely military aid (to buy US manufactured arms) so not much will be lost
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    I think the US aid was solely military aid (to buy US manufactured arms) so not much will be lost
    You are right. Arms and the "civil society" "democratisation" messing by the CIA -

    http://egypt.usaid.gov/en/Pages/default.aspx
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    So whom should we western liberals support? The elected but islamist Morsi or the secular but army-backed people of Cairo?

    A similar choice may come about in Turkey soon.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    So whom should we western liberals support? The elected but islamist Morsi or the secular but army-backed people of Cairo?

    A similar choice may come about in Turkey soon.
    We should support neither, they are both complete dead ends.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Democracy is Hypocrisy.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    OK, Riposte does not suport democracy at all, and PW thinks we should wash our hands of it.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    OK, Riposte does not suport democracy at all, and PW thinks we should wash our hands of it.
    It would take a couple of oceans of water to wash your hands Richard.
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies.”

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    OK, Riposte does not suport democracy at all, and PW thinks we should wash our hands of it.


    I think that it was always a limited offer to the people of "advanced economies" who benefited from cheap raw materials extracted from places with no democracy at all.

    At this stage of history, it clearly can't any longer exist in "advanced" capitalist economies, as the (extremely undemocratic) policies required to keep capitalism on life support are totally unacceptable to most people.

    It is not me or Riposte who is anti-democracy. We are merely pointing out that it is not able to function any more.

    Much of our democracy in Ireland has been annulled by passing decision making over to unaccountable bodies and by agreeing to various treaties with other states. In Ireland, the bank guarantee decision was made without calling the Dail into emergency session and the extent of the guarantee seems to have been decided in the absence of the Government.

    What democracy ?

    I'm in favour of a much more in depth and active democracy involving everyone in communal self government between elections, not just once every seven years.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Egypt - Revolution or Military Dictatorship ?

    Riposte, your post is reported.

    PW, yes, but my original question was not only about democracy, but on whose side we should be on in this instance. Even if both sides are severely flawed, one or other must be closer to what we would prefer.

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